Baptism. Taufe. טבילה 洗禮 Covenants

If you know all those languages then that is really cool. Kudos to you. And don't worry, we don't baptize this way in our church. haha It's quite a bit more peaceful. :P

To answer your question, yes. Oh you don’t know what the question was? The question was, “Didn’t someone (Bryan) already write about Baptism forever ago?” The answer is, yes. But I’m writing about the covenants we make at baptism, which is the reason we place so much importance on it in the LDS church.

When someone is baptized into the LDS church they “take upon them the name of Christ”. This is meaning that we will do our best to act like him; to be a part of him. It’s like when a girl gets married and she takes the last name of her husband. She is tying herself to him and showing that her husband is a part of her, that she is devoted to him and that they have joined together to move forward towards the same goals. It is this way when we take Christ’s name upon us. It shows that you readily stand up for the church, your standards, God and the Savior. You take his name upon you and covenant to always behave in a way that would never taint his name or disrespect it.

In the LDS church we take the sacrament every Sunday, which I know is not just something the LDS church does. I’ve been to a catholic mass before and they also had the sacrament there. I was surprised because I didn’t realize that others religions take the sacrament. For them, the sacrament is just performed and partaken of to remind them of Christ’s suffering for us. The bread=body, the water=blood. That’s basically common knowledge I know and in the LDS it also means that. However, it means more than that for us. When we take the sacrament we are renewing the covenants we made at baptism. We are cleansing ourselves of the sins we may have committed over the past week just as we were washed clean of our sins at the initial baptism.

I usually try to use mostly biblical scriptures, but since I'm talking about something that is LDS specific I will use Book of Mormon scriptures to explain our ways on the topic.

These are baptism scriptures talking about taking the name of Christ on them.

3 Nephi 18:11
Moroni 6:3-6
Mosiah 18:8-10 (The full written out version of the covenants we make. In what I wrote, I generalized what the covenants were by saying "taking on the name of Christ."

The following are sacrament scriptures talking about taking the name of Christ on them which is what we do at baptism. We renew our covenants during the sacrament as well.
D&C 20:77,79 (These are the sacrament prayers)
3 Nephi 18:7-10

Anti-Mormon Literature.

In June I wrote about the term "Anti-Mormon".

Bill McKeever, founder of Mormonism Research Ministry

I mainly pointed out that the term itself doesn't seem appropriate... I'm not "Anti-Mormon" in the sense that I'm against Mormons... My best friend IS Mormon. For the specifics on the post please use the link above :)

This time, I'd like to focus on the claims of "Anti-Mormons". Whether or not this Anti-Mormon literature should be viewed by Mormons or Christians.

If you don't know already, I (Paul) have been looking into Mormonism extensively for about 2 years now. In talking to Bryan, we decided it would be a good idea to try the "Moroni Promise". Which basically means to read the Book of Mormon, then pray to ask God if it's true or not. Well, I did just that... and over 14 months later, I've yet to receive confirmation either way as to the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith having any authority from God.

In my conversations with Bryan ever since my first attempt to gain this 'testimony' of the BOM he spoke of, he didn't have any idea why I haven't received one... That is until I got his last letter.

In his last letter Bryan posited that the reason I may not have received my testimony is due to the amount of "Anti-Mormon Literature" I've subjected myself to. He also said that This type of literature is likened to "Spiritual Pornography" that it damages the spirit.

I was actually surprised at this seeing as Bryan and I had at one time agreed that Anti-Mormon literature wasn't a big deal and that anyone could read whatever they want. (Within reason of course).

After reading this I looked up past conversations I have had with Bryan to try and see where he was coming from... or if this was really what he believed, or if was an answer someone else suggested.


I found this bit that I had sent him back in July of '09: Anti-Mormon. Mormon J. Nelson-Seawright writes that "the terminological sleight of hand involved in the label ‘anti-Mormon’ allows [Mormons] to ignore the differences between honest and honorable men and women who oppose us, on the one hand, and unprincipled villains, on the other." Mormon Joni Hilton advises fellow members: "First of all, anti-Mormon literature, Internet sites, conversations, ideas, etc. are like spiritual pornography. Once they are in the mind, they are very difficult to get rid of. As you try to reach out to your husband, I would advise you to avoid any material, even if you think it might help you understand him better. You don’t want those seeds of doubt planted in your own mind, because no one is immune to them." -found from mrm.org


Bryan never responded to that email (He was usually pretty busy, no fault on his part) He did say this when I asked if it was ok for him to even read this stuff: "We can find and read anything…. Just type anything in google, and you can read stuff. I have talked to two bishops about the things I am learning with you. They don’t have a problem with anything. They are happy I am learning more about the church."


I can't go back and 'un-learn' all the "Anti-Mormon" literature I've ever read, but I can be shown that it was in error... I have to say that I would never join a church or religion without doing my own investigation into both the good and the bad. (Not that I haven't made the mistake of doing just the opposite in the past...) I don't expect the history of the LDS church to be perfect. But I do become concerned when I find that certain truths are being 'hidden' or 'harder to find'. If I was a missionary of the LDS church I would give as objective a picture as possible to those I was trying to convert. I wouldn't want to white-wash history and present a favorable view of the religion just to get numbers. (Not saying this is what Bryan's doing... in fact we made an agreement that he would never 'trick' anyone into the church by using shady tactics or omitting key information that would otherwise deter their joining the LDS church.) 


Even within Christianity... As a Christian, I am disgusted at the mirrors and smoke employed to show Christianity in a favorable light. The dirty truth is that almost every early follower of Christ was called to serve as a martyr. Believing in Christ is not a way to get rich or "Live Your Best Life Now". It's not a means to get more friends or be accepted. I want so much to inform potential converts of true Christianity. That they may die for Christ, that it's easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. That we must take up our cross and follow Him, forsaking all others... Not even "wasting the time" to bury your own father. If this type of thing were to be considered "Anti-Christian Literature then I would be buying it in bulk and distributing it to every serious believer I encounter. Oh wait, I guess that is what I'm doing. Haha. 


So if Anti-Mormonism is what's keeping me from having a testimony of the truth of the LDS church then I would that Elohim just keep His testimony. For if He's not strong enough to overcome a few misled "Mormon haters" then He's not who I thought He was. 


What do you think? Should Mormons read "Anti-Mormon" material? Should Christians read Atheistic material? Would/could this material be the cause to keep someone from seeing the truth? Or might it be possible for God to make Himself real to even Christopher Hitchens before he succumbs to his cancer? (I pray for your healing Christopher)


Grace and Peace!

1 Year Anniversary! :D

I just happened to look at the date of this blog's inaugural post: 12/29/09

So I'm a day late but I wanted to at least call attention to this momentous occasion! :)

We've gone through quite a bit of changes in the last year and have even more in store for you starting right away in 2011!

Looking forward to finding truth with all of you. Thanks for a wonderful year!

Merry Christmas!

MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

From Elder Meyer, buahahahahahhahahahahhahaha no

Merry Christmas

I have the awesome blessing of being able to post right before Christmas. Christmas, I love Christmas! Why? Because it is a time when most people are open to the subject of Jesus! Is December 25th really Jesus's birth 'date', no, but it is a day we have adapted to acknowledge the birth of our Saviour and I love this extremely easy opportunity to talk about Him! And it is really easy when you have kids. I love the look on people's faces when they ask my kids, "So, what is Santa going to bring you?" and we politely and lovingly tell them we don't 'do' the Santa thing. And tell them why 'we' celebrate Christmas. Even though St Nicholas was a great man and did good things, he certainly will not take away from my Lord. But truly I could never understand why people would try to encourage their kids to believe in a man (Santa) who they can't see that brings gifts only for them to find out it was all a lie and then truly not understand why these same kids have trouble believing in another man (Jesus) that they also can't see who wants to give them a gift but is not a lie. Hmm....

Wherever you, the reader, are this Christmas, whether alone or with family or with friends, my prayer is that you will find the love of Christ and understand what He did by coming into this world, dying for us, being raised from the dead and is ever interceding for us at the right hand of the Father. And truly have the joy of Christmas filling your heart until it bursts!

Be Blessed!

Debbie

Atheism vs. Theism

Hey guys! And Gals! ;) I'd like to dedicate this post to some things I've been going though lately.

The image above is a "cheap shot" at atheists... Making fun of people who believe something different from you is an incredibly easy thing to do. I mean, Atheists are pros at taking their own cheap shots at religion!

Yeah...


How does this relate to Christianity and Mormonism? It doesn't. But you can make anything relate to anything with a little bit of duct tape.

Christians can poke fun at Mormons for trying to become Gods, not drinking coffee, having soooooo many kids ;). Mormons can make fun of Christians, well for a whole lot of things... ha... believe me, there are things.

But there's more to it than just poking fun at other people... There's an amazing conversation to be had with people who are critical of your views. If you spend all your time listening/reading/watching only things you agree with, you'll never learn anything new. You'll never be challenged. You'll grow complacent and begin to forget why you believe what you believe. When you talk to people who agree with you, you can let things slip. Say things a little more casually than they deserve... Then when you come across someone who doesn't share your beliefs you find you can't articulate exactly what it is you believe... You might not even remember why it is you believe what you believe!

So this is a post of admonition. Let's get past our differences, as LDS, Ortho-Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, and Scientol- well... yeah.... tis' the season after all... ;)

Here's a Facebook group that might be good for some of you to practice on. It's a discussion forum between atheists and theists. Enter at your own risk, I am not responsible for the content some people may post ;)

Short n sweet ;) But hey, if you've got any questions about Mormonsim, Christianity, or whatnot, please ask away!

Cheers!

Where was the Atonement again?

Hello! Soo it's finals week. :/ Forgive me for shirking my duty of posting due to stress and studying and more stress. ha However, yesterday I received a letter from the ever so famous Elder Bryan Meyer who sent a post he wrote along with his letter. So today, we will be hearing from Bryan Meyer. Enjoy! (His post was kinda confusing. haha He did it really fast so I'll try to make it make sense.)

Hey everybody! This is Elder Bryan Meyer posting-ing through his good friend Michelle. I have awesome blog ideas, but I have hardly any time to write them. So I'll save them for 2 years. By that time I will forget them. So...

The mission is great. Hard, but great. I love it. I've helped a lot of people. It's grrrrreat!

Hopefully Michelle won't ruin this small post. So if there are any mistakes with anything, blame her. :D (you see what I put up with?? ;) haha jk he's an amazing friend.)

This post is about the atonement. And when it happened. I've been confused why everybody is confused about when it happened. Not confused but... why Mormonism says it took place in the Garden and Christian sects says it took place on the cross.

Garden of Gethsemane:
Matthew 26:39:
39. And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

It says this cup. Referring to having possession.

Luke 22:42-44:
42. Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Likewise, it says this. It also said an angel strengthened him. It also says he was in agony and great drops of blood were falling.

Mark 14:35-36:
35. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
36. And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

It says this cup and this hour.

Now, the cross:
Matthew 27:46:
46. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34:
It says the exact same thing as Matthew 27.

John 19:28, 30:
28. After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
30. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Which of these two sounds more like the atonement? In the Garden it talks about his suffering, his feelings, the blood falling from him and an angel strengthening him. The cross just says the few things he said. Nothing about his pain or an angel having to strengthen him. In John 19:28, 30 it is unclear on what he is referring to. The scripture being fulfilled could be the lifting up on the cross and the end of the atonement. Death was a part of the atonement. So the scriptures are fulfilled and his ministry/mission/last step of the atonement is over.

So ya, that's all I have time for. Hopefully this all made sense. May God be with you until I post again. Fare thee well!
-Elder Meyer

This is Michelle. I want to add something I learned yesterday that I thought was just interesting. When you lose a lot of blood you become very very thirsty. He said while on the cross that he was thirsty. When they gave him vinegar I thought they were kind of spiting him. He wanted water, but instead they gave him something nasty. Vinegar and gall. In reality, in those days they used vinegar and gall to deaden pain. They were trying to make it easier on him, but he had to refuse because he had to do it alone which is why the Lord drew his spirit from him in the garden as well. The physical pain Christ went through wasn't the atonement. We all go through physical pain. He had to suffer each persons emotional and physical pain which happened in the Garden and that's what made the atonement what it is. None of us has ever had to deal with that. And we never have to deal with our pains by ourselves because he suffered them for us. We can always go to him. Anyways, that's my little spiel.

(Matthew 27:34: They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.)

Have an amazing week!
~Michelle

Written by Michelle and Bryan.
Michelle+Bryan= Brychelle! :P