Atheism vs. Theism

Hey guys! And Gals! ;) I'd like to dedicate this post to some things I've been going though lately.

The image above is a "cheap shot" at atheists... Making fun of people who believe something different from you is an incredibly easy thing to do. I mean, Atheists are pros at taking their own cheap shots at religion!

Yeah...


How does this relate to Christianity and Mormonism? It doesn't. But you can make anything relate to anything with a little bit of duct tape.

Christians can poke fun at Mormons for trying to become Gods, not drinking coffee, having soooooo many kids ;). Mormons can make fun of Christians, well for a whole lot of things... ha... believe me, there are things.

But there's more to it than just poking fun at other people... There's an amazing conversation to be had with people who are critical of your views. If you spend all your time listening/reading/watching only things you agree with, you'll never learn anything new. You'll never be challenged. You'll grow complacent and begin to forget why you believe what you believe. When you talk to people who agree with you, you can let things slip. Say things a little more casually than they deserve... Then when you come across someone who doesn't share your beliefs you find you can't articulate exactly what it is you believe... You might not even remember why it is you believe what you believe!

So this is a post of admonition. Let's get past our differences, as LDS, Ortho-Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, and Scientol- well... yeah.... tis' the season after all... ;)

Here's a Facebook group that might be good for some of you to practice on. It's a discussion forum between atheists and theists. Enter at your own risk, I am not responsible for the content some people may post ;)

Short n sweet ;) But hey, if you've got any questions about Mormonsim, Christianity, or whatnot, please ask away!

Cheers!

Where was the Atonement again?

Hello! Soo it's finals week. :/ Forgive me for shirking my duty of posting due to stress and studying and more stress. ha However, yesterday I received a letter from the ever so famous Elder Bryan Meyer who sent a post he wrote along with his letter. So today, we will be hearing from Bryan Meyer. Enjoy! (His post was kinda confusing. haha He did it really fast so I'll try to make it make sense.)

Hey everybody! This is Elder Bryan Meyer posting-ing through his good friend Michelle. I have awesome blog ideas, but I have hardly any time to write them. So I'll save them for 2 years. By that time I will forget them. So...

The mission is great. Hard, but great. I love it. I've helped a lot of people. It's grrrrreat!

Hopefully Michelle won't ruin this small post. So if there are any mistakes with anything, blame her. :D (you see what I put up with?? ;) haha jk he's an amazing friend.)

This post is about the atonement. And when it happened. I've been confused why everybody is confused about when it happened. Not confused but... why Mormonism says it took place in the Garden and Christian sects says it took place on the cross.

Garden of Gethsemane:
Matthew 26:39:
39. And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

It says this cup. Referring to having possession.

Luke 22:42-44:
42. Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Likewise, it says this. It also said an angel strengthened him. It also says he was in agony and great drops of blood were falling.

Mark 14:35-36:
35. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
36. And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

It says this cup and this hour.

Now, the cross:
Matthew 27:46:
46. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34:
It says the exact same thing as Matthew 27.

John 19:28, 30:
28. After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
30. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Which of these two sounds more like the atonement? In the Garden it talks about his suffering, his feelings, the blood falling from him and an angel strengthening him. The cross just says the few things he said. Nothing about his pain or an angel having to strengthen him. In John 19:28, 30 it is unclear on what he is referring to. The scripture being fulfilled could be the lifting up on the cross and the end of the atonement. Death was a part of the atonement. So the scriptures are fulfilled and his ministry/mission/last step of the atonement is over.

So ya, that's all I have time for. Hopefully this all made sense. May God be with you until I post again. Fare thee well!
-Elder Meyer

This is Michelle. I want to add something I learned yesterday that I thought was just interesting. When you lose a lot of blood you become very very thirsty. He said while on the cross that he was thirsty. When they gave him vinegar I thought they were kind of spiting him. He wanted water, but instead they gave him something nasty. Vinegar and gall. In reality, in those days they used vinegar and gall to deaden pain. They were trying to make it easier on him, but he had to refuse because he had to do it alone which is why the Lord drew his spirit from him in the garden as well. The physical pain Christ went through wasn't the atonement. We all go through physical pain. He had to suffer each persons emotional and physical pain which happened in the Garden and that's what made the atonement what it is. None of us has ever had to deal with that. And we never have to deal with our pains by ourselves because he suffered them for us. We can always go to him. Anyways, that's my little spiel.

(Matthew 27:34: They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.)

Have an amazing week!
~Michelle

Written by Michelle and Bryan.
Michelle+Bryan= Brychelle! :P

The Chosen One/ Faith: Myth or Legend?

As The Chosen One, I shall bring balance to the Farm! I was nominated by the Academy Awards to be a contributer on this amazing blog so here comes the introduction of...The Chosen one!
Name: Jacob Andrew McClellan

Former Place of living: Provo, Utah

Current Place of living: Mapleton, Utah(which has one traffic light and one gas station)

Claims to Fame: Got stuck under a garage door, drove a van by the age of 7, stuck my head between two basketball poles(Bryan knows all about it.) :)
Favorite Color: Green with a hint of sky blue

Favorite Fruit: Kiwifruit

Dreams and Hopes: Grow a kiwifruit farm in Utah. Become a famous business man and sip lemonade out of a twisty, bendy straw that tastes like strawberries.

Social Security Number: If I don't know it, why should you?! :)

I am excited to start contributing to this blog! This is the first post I've ever posted in me whole life, so nobody can criticize without my permission....you have my permission. :) I am of the LDS church and it has been an incredible experience. I have known Bryan since 7th grade so....a lot of years.

Faith is a crucial part of the LDS religion. Even more crucial than kiwis are to the New Zealand culture. That's a lot of crucial! Anywho, let's get down to the basics. Faith is defined by Alma in Alma 32:21 as "Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.". I always think of Santa Claus when I read this verse. :) Now faith requires two things for it to work wholeheartedly, action and power. I have a story about a man:

Once upon a time, there was a man. The end!!....just kidding :) And because this man was a rock climber, this man decided to climb up Ayers Rock in Australia. He's strolling all around on this rock, when he decides to look out at the view. It was a gorgeously, blisteringly hotly day in Australia. Something shiny below him caught his eye. He leans out farther to try to see it. Nope, can't see it. So, he leans farther out. Still couldn't tell what it was. So, he leans even farther out, when all of a sudden!!....
Falling....

falling....

falling.....til he snags a tree branch jutting out from the cliff wall! Now he starts praying like never before!

"Lord, please help me off of this cliff, I have a life to live! I have places to go and people to see! I have a wife who I love dearly, I have three children who I hope love me! I still haven't finished my 1000 piece puzzle I started in 7th grade!".

Well, after a time, God answers, "Hmmm...would you let go of the branch if I sent a helicopter with a ladder to save you?"

"Oh yes, Lord! I would let go!"

"Alright, would you let go of the branch if I sent a rescue squad to save you?"

"Yes oh yes! I would ever so let go!"

"Good, good. Now, will you let go of the branch if I told you I was going to send a burst of wind so powerful that it would blow you back up to the top of the cliff?"............

The Official End

Faith requires that we put our trust in the Lord. It is not an easy thing to do. But it is always worth it.

Now put yourself in this dude's position. Would you have enough faith to believe that the Lord would push you back up by wind? Previous to the story, I said the faith requires action and power. God provides the power, the only question is: will you provide the action?

May your kiwis grow ever so large and may your Christmas be merry!
P.S. Another scripture on faith: Hebrews 11:1.

Good or Evil - is there a difference?

This month I would like to open some discussions on the subject of movies. I believe in our culture the movie/tv industry plays a large role in people's lives. One single television show can capture a viewer for a whole season, or more. And one movie can be the topic around the dinner table for months.

In recent years I am very puzzled with the infatuation of all the 'witchcraft' & 'vampire' themes that are out there. I know it's been around a long time - but it seems to have taken a shift. Now the warlocks and vampires are the good guys? Honestly, I don't even understand the attraction to 'horror' flicks. Many Christian families I know and love are thrilled with all these Harry Potter & Twilight movies. Many love the 'dark' characters who somehow have become the 'stars' of the film industries.

On a brief word study I did on the word, 'light', it seems that this is a place or example of who or what we are suppose to be or follow after, instead of pursuing things reserved for darkness. I found several scriptures supporting this belief. (just a few off the top: John 8:12, Matt 5:14, Job 12:22, Psm 18:28) Even God in the beginning of Genesis saw the need to separate the light from the darkness. Now, I know in some of these cases we are talking about physical light and dark, but I believe there is something more here.

Don't misunderstand me, I love a good action or romance film like the next gal, however how did we come to a place where our classic good against evil...and good wins (the important part, lol) get to a place where we don't even know which characters are the good ones or the evil ones. The Lord of the Rings is a good example. My family love these movies and there is much 'evil' in it. But the writer doesn't blur the line between who is good and who is evil. From the beginning it is clear who is the 'good' and who is the 'evil' and the importance that the good is suppose to win, and does, according to the finale of the movies. Great, classic story line. But, more and more movies 'blur' that line and it is getting harder to see the 'light' and 'dark' sides.

Lastly, if we read in 2 Tim 1:7 that God has not given us a spirit of fear.....then why do so many seek after 'fear' as a form of entertainment?

Hmmm, ok, I'm ready for opposition - I think (lol)

Deception

de·cep·tion

1. The use of deceit.

2. The fact or state of being deceived.

3. A ruse; a trick.

de·ceive
1. To cause to believe what is not true; mislead.
2. Archaic To catch by guile; ensnare.

This week in conversation with Michelle, the question came up of "If you could ask President Monson one question and get his answer, what would that question be?" For myself, I'd like to ask him the following question:

How do you know that you aren't being deceived? 

Michelle said she'd love to hear that conversation and I myself would love to hear his answer! Thinking about it, there's really only one answer I can come up with: You don't. 

The whole point of being deceived, is that you don't know about it. Sure you could eventually come to a conclusion that you have been deceived, but at that point you're no longer caught in the deception. To what you were once blind, you can now see clearly. 

How then are we to be sure of anything? Well as far as I can tell, the best way to root out deception, is to ask the hard questions. The awkward questions, the ugly questions. Being skeptical of everyone and everything is healthy in my view. There are far too many people/organizations out there that have scientifically perfected the art of deception, to the point where well meaning followers can deceive others without even knowing they're deceived themselves! 

I know this to be true, just look at the two faiths represented in this Blog. Mormonism and Christianity. Both religions have devout followers that believe spreading their message is one of our greatest priorities. But in the end, only one, if one of these religions can be true. It is easy for me to suspect Joseph Smith as a deciever, and in turn to see every Mormon as a well meaning deceived-deceiver only trying to do what they think is best. It was a little more difficult to try and see my own Christian brothers and sisters in the same light. But I had to, I have to hold myself to the same standard as I hold others. I have to hold Christianity to the same standard I hold Mormonism. 

So how about it: Are you currently being deceived by what you believe to be true? How would you go about trying to make sure that you aren't? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Outer Darkness, Spirit Prison and Hell. Are they Different?

No.

Okay that’s my post. Wanted to keep it short. See ya!

What? You expect more from me then that?? Jeez. High maintenance.

Alright well, first off, what I say is what the LDS church teaches. I'm curious about what other faiths believe though soo... tell me. :)

Something about Outer Darkness and such:

We believe that if you are not baptized in the LDS church before your death you go to spirit prison where you can be taught the gospel in heaven and then someone on earth can do the work for you and you can actually be moved out of spirit prison. Since there’s a post about the different heavens on here, I’ll assume you will know what I’m talking about. If you don’t, read Bryan’s post called “Heaven? Heavens?” There are things that must be completed on earth for you to reach the celestial kingdom so having your baptismal work done for you after you’re dead will not get to you to that state, but you can enter the telestial kingdom.

Something else about Outer Darkness and such (Don’t you love these headings? They’re really helpful.):

This will probably come as a shock to some people. I’m pretty sure it caught me by surprise. You don’t go to Hell for being “bad”. If you murder someone on earth you will be judged by God at the judgment bar and will have to repent and such, but it does not qualify you for Hell. Sending someone to Hell is a serious matter, it’s not just for people who made a wrong decision. It’s saved for the worst sin that can be committed. Denying God. If you know and believe in God and have his spirit with you and know the truth then you actively and knowingly reject Him that is an unpardonable sin. That will bring a path to Outer Darkness. I’m pretty sure my teacher also mentioned that not even Hitler would be sent there…

Something more about Outer Darkness including examples (and such):

We have some examples of this in the Bible. (There are also things about this in the Book of Mormon, but I try to not quote from the BOM as much. Since the Bible is the common book of teachings. If you want to hear what the BOM has to say about it though tell me. I’ll post some stuff from it.) Jonah was a prophet of God, right? Well of course right. Jonah had gone against God and was in the “belly of Hell” not literally, but spiritually. In Jonah Ch. 2 it says:

1 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly,

2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the

belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed

me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

This next one is from Matthew. I think it’s saying that people who commit sins on the earth, but do nothing to the spirit of people are not those we need to fear. Well… don’t take that to seriously. You might die. Fear them. By all means. But eternally, and spiritually. Don’t. Fear those who tear down your spirit. Because once you lose your spirit and what is true (Heavenly Father and Christ) you will lose your place in Heaven.

Matthew Ch. 10

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Well I don't have anything else to say right now, but I can answer questions! Thank you for tuning in. :) (p.s. the verses were having troubles posting in the right format so they're randomly spaced and on random lines. haha)

Remember Remember the 25th of December?

"Remember, remember the 25th of December,

The Birth of Christ our Lord,

I know of no reason why the Birth of Christ

Should ever be ignored."

Hey Merryamartyr here!

It's my first post so be nice...

Today were gonna talk about religious holidays. Whether Mormon or Christian we share many of the same "Holy Days" and we all put a ton of focus on these occasions. Christmas, Easter, Pioneer Day, Good Friday, Palm Sunday, April 6th, or May 15th; all these days have great importance to our religions and in turn to who we are. What I would like to discuss is whether or not they should play as large of a role as they do.

In Christianity, the attendance of Church meetings double for Easter and Christmas which is great but what is the real cause. Many people feel they need to be better on Sunday because they are nearer to God or maybe he is watching more closely and this is amplified even more on these "Holy Days". I mean should we really treat our neighbors more kindly during the holidays or should we be better Samaritans all year. Should we merely contemplate the wonderful miracle and mystery of our Saviors birth on the 25th of December and his death and resurrection on easter or would it serve us better to keep this Good News on our lips all year long.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with celebrating these days but are they really more important than any other day. Wouldn't we make just that much more of an impact on the world if every day we gave liked Christmas, meditated on God's goodness like Easter, or _______________ like on Pioneer Day! ( Someone explain that one to me :D ) Anyway, these are just my thoughts, I am much more interested in hearing yours!

In the Love of Christ,

Merryamartyr