A Mormon And A Christian

Answers!!? uuh huh. :)

2011-04-25T16:58:00.001-04:00

So this will be news to even Paul. He's the one who asked me to do this. I did a very long time ago and didn't tell him about it. :) I wanted him to see this blog first.

I surprisingly had never read the entire Book of Mormon on my own. I have read it a lot, but always reading with somebody else like my mom or whole family. I hadn't ever really thought about the fact that I hadn't read it on my own soo I decided to. :) It took me about a year because I usually only read one chapter a day. I finished around February sometime. I was really happy and excited that I had finished reading the Book of Mormon completely on my own so I told Paul that I finished and he asked if I could do Moroni's promise. Moroni 10:3-6 I told him that I had prayed about the truthfulness of the church a long time ago and already had my answer, but he wanted me to do it again. I said alright I'd do it, but it would probably take a little while because Heavenly Father doesn't always answer right when you ask. He never really asked me about it again.

Answers come in all different forms. The answer I received was the given to me in a way that I definitely knew it was my answer, but I'd never been answered that way before. I actually got my answer fairly quick. I prayed about it almost every night. I read the scriptures every day as we are commanded to do and I usually read right before going to bed and I'm usually pretty tired while reading. One Sunday I was in church and had the thought that I should read that afternoon because I wouldn't be so tired and I could read a lot more than just one chapter. Later that day, a while after church, I was in my room reading the Book of Mormon (I started reading it again almost right after finishing it) and I honestly don't even remember where I was reading, but I suddenly got this HUGE feeling of love for the Book of Mormon. Not just like an "oh this is a cool book..." No. Really. This overwhelming, overpowering love for it to the point that it almost brought me to tears. And I rarely cry about things like that. It took me by surprise so I just sat on my bed kind of stunned thinking... whoa. Where did that come from? I realized right then that that was my answer. It was really cool. :) And I am really glad Paul asked me to pray about the truthfulness of the book because now I will remember that specific love I have for the Book of Mormon. Answers don't always come that soon though. Heavenly Father answers prayers and questions when it's the right time for you. Sometimes prayers don't get answered for a long time and people think that either Heavenly Father doesn't care about them, or that what they're asking isn't true or doesn't matter. False! Heavenly Father does care, he will answer you're prayer and not just leave you hanging and anything that truely matters to you matters to the Lord. I believe that God gives answers when we're prepared for them. If we ask something not really believing that we will be answered then His answer would probably go unnoticed. He waits for when we truely put faith into our prayers and are prepared to accept what his answer is. :)

The End. I have to go to work now. I had an hour to kill at school before work started and I thought this would be a good use of my time. Don't you agree?

And I'm A Mormon.

2011-04-01T11:19:00.000-04:00

After years of study I have finally arrived at a place where I can say with assurance that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the One True Church.

I have received a testimony in my spirit that his church is true. I have finally learned that I cannot rely on my logic or the 'facts' that I may 'think' to be true. Instead, I am now allowing God to directly teach me His truth, which is not limited to reality or our fallen version of truth.

Let it be known that on April 1st, 2011, that I have finally seen True truth and will follow it for the rest of my days.

Oh and by the way: This April Fool's Day post is completely fictitious.

Happy Birthday Michelle!!!

2011-03-17T12:41:00.000-04:00

Happy 20th birthday Michelle!! :D Blogging with you has been an incredible pleasure! ENJOY YOUR CAKE?!

World[s] Without End?

2011-02-01T14:20:00.000-05:00

Being convinced of something is not a decision that one can make. It is something that happens as your mind takes in information. You can decide whether or not the information being taken in is credible, but the process of being convinced happens on its own with little to no effort.

It is widely believed that the universe and time has a beginning, well this is exactly what the Bible teaches, even before Science could back it up. However, many scientists have suggested that the universe has "always" existed. Even before the Big Bang, there were materials in a super compact form till the Big Bang took place. Something that was and still is a central truth that lends itself to my being convinced of a theistic world-view, is the problem of "Infinite Regression":

An infinite regress in a series of propositions arises if the truth of proposition P₁ requires the support of proposition P₂, the truth of proposition P₂ requires the support of proposition P₃, ... , and the truth of proposition P_n-1 requires the support of proposition P_n and n approaches infinity.

The way I have heard it best explained is to think of the history of everything as a VHS (A VHS is a primitive form of video storage and presentation which were utilized before people invented useful things). You get the VHS from a VHS rental store and when you get home to watch it you find that whoever rented it prior to you did not rewind it. You proceed to rewind the tape to get to the "beginning" but the tape just keeps rewinding. In fact, you decide to leave the tape to rewind for 20 years and it still has not stopped. Let it go another [infinite number] of years and it still will never stop rewinding.

So there is your first dilemma, you can not get far enough back to even stop the tape to begin playing it forward. But for the sake of logic, lets grant that you can press play once you "reach" the beginning of an infinite past. Your second problem is that you will never read the "present", even if you were to fast forward at as large of intervals of your liking, you would never be able to cross an infinite period of time. In other words, you and I would never be able to make it to what we call today if an infinite amount of time had to be crossed to get here.

Going even further, granting the universe an attribute of an infinite past, we are in a way "deifying" the universe. An infinite past is not something that is naturally tenable, therefore, on its own, having super-natural attributes, the universe always existing does not do anything for those arguing for a secular world-view.

So the only way I can see a secular world-view being remotely sustainable would be for everything to come from nothing, nowhere, never. Hmmm it seems my best attempt at defending secularism is precluded by logic itself. Oh well, I tried. ;)

In yet another effort to offer secular basis for life, the theory of "Multiverse" comes into play. This theory does not attempt to solve the problem of infinite regress, but does attempt to solve to problem of "Fine Tuning" which states:

The fine-tuned Universe is the idea that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is presently understood.

Starting after the problem of when, where, and what created everything, the multiverse makes it easier to believe that life can arise by chance, however statistically improbable it might be, due to the infinite number of universes that came into being at the beginning. This makes sense to me, logically, but I might remind you that the "Multiverse" is as evidentially sustainable as God is. Meaning that both require faith, which strikes odd to me that a secularist would be ok with that.

What does any of this have to do with Mormonism? Thank you for asking, you win!

Mormonism actually includes forms of both secular theories we just discussed. Like I said earlier, I have no logical problem with the multiverse theory, but I still can not see how a person can rationally hold to a world-view that fosters an infinite regression.

LDS theology holds that Earth is not the only world that is inhabited with people by our Father God. In fact The term used is "Worlds without end". This is a type of Multiverse, yet not necessarily removed by separate universes, yet if there are other worlds with people who the Jesus that died on Earth died for, it would eventually be possible for this to be evidentially supported (In the event we find such worlds).

Mormonism also holds that God the Father was actually a man on a world much like ours, with a God to Him as He is to us. Many Mormons believe that this is not the only cycle that has occurred in history. Many hold that Each God has His own God. This is one of the more perfect examples of infinite regression I have come across.

In talking with Bryan about this in the past, he admitted that this was one of the biggest things he did not understand and had a hard time believing. I was and still am impressed with his honesty and in no way am trying to prey on his weakness by posting this. In fact I purposely waited about a year to post on this subject specifically because it was one of his weaker areas of faith.

I am in no way trying to suggest that a person needs to "know everything" in order to hold certain beliefs. Neither am I trying to say that all beliefs must be rational. All I am trying to do is to get us to take a closer look at exactly what it is we believe. What we are sub-consciously convinced of. And for us to decide whether or not we are ok with that.

Apologies for the long post, but it does serve as a gauge showing how much this matters to me.

God Bless you all!

Baptism. Taufe. טבילה 洗禮 Covenants

2011-01-19T00:24:00.004-05:00

If you know all those languages then that is really cool. Kudos to you. And don't worry, we don't baptize this way in our church. haha It's quite a bit more peaceful. :P

To answer your question, yes. Oh you don’t know what the question was? The question was, “Didn’t someone (Bryan) already write about Baptism forever ago?” The answer is, yes. But I’m writing about the covenants we make at baptism, which is the reason we place so much importance on it in the LDS church.

When someone is baptized into the LDS church they “take upon them the name of Christ”. This is meaning that we will do our best to act like him; to be a part of him. It’s like when a girl gets married and she takes the last name of her husband. She is tying herself to him and showing that her husband is a part of her, that she is devoted to him and that they have joined together to move forward towards the same goals. It is this way when we take Christ’s name upon us. It shows that you readily stand up for the church, your standards, God and the Savior. You take his name upon you and covenant to always behave in a way that would never taint his name or disrespect it.

In the LDS church we take the sacrament every Sunday, which I know is not just something the LDS church does. I’ve been to a catholic mass before and they also had the sacrament there. I was surprised because I didn’t realize that others religions take the sacrament. For them, the sacrament is just performed and partaken of to remind them of Christ’s suffering for us. The bread=body, the water=blood. That’s basically common knowledge I know and in the LDS it also means that. However, it means more than that for us. When we take the sacrament we are renewing the covenants we made at baptism. We are cleansing ourselves of the sins we may have committed over the past week just as we were washed clean of our sins at the initial baptism.

I usually try to use mostly biblical scriptures, but since I'm talking about something that is LDS specific I will use Book of Mormon scriptures to explain our ways on the topic.

These are baptism scriptures talking about taking the name of Christ on them.

3 Nephi 18:11
Moroni 6:3-6
Mosiah 18:8-10 (The full written out version of the covenants we make. In what I wrote, I generalized what the covenants were by saying "taking on the name of Christ."

The following are sacrament scriptures talking about taking the name of Christ on them which is what we do at baptism. We renew our covenants during the sacrament as well.
D&C 20:77,79 (These are the sacrament prayers)
3 Nephi 18:7-10

Anti-Mormon Literature.

2011-01-10T14:26:00.003-05:00

In June I wrote about the term "Anti-Mormon".

Bill McKeever, founder of Mormonism Research Ministry

I mainly pointed out that the term itself doesn't seem appropriate... I'm not "Anti-Mormon" in the sense that I'm against Mormons... My best friend IS Mormon. For the specifics on the post please use the link above :)

This time, I'd like to focus on the claims of "Anti-Mormons". Whether or not this Anti-Mormon literature should be viewed by Mormons or Christians.

If you don't know already, I (Paul) have been looking into Mormonism extensively for about 2 years now. In talking to Bryan, we decided it would be a good idea to try the "Moroni Promise". Which basically means to read the Book of Mormon, then pray to ask God if it's true or not. Well, I did just that... and over 14 months later, I've yet to receive confirmation either way as to the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith having any authority from God.

In my conversations with Bryan ever since my first attempt to gain this 'testimony' of the BOM he spoke of, he didn't have any idea why I haven't received one... That is until I got his last letter.

In his last letter Bryan posited that the reason I may not have received my testimony is due to the amount of "Anti-Mormon Literature" I've subjected myself to. He also said that This type of literature is likened to "Spiritual Pornography" that it damages the spirit.

I was actually surprised at this seeing as Bryan and I had at one time agreed that Anti-Mormon literature wasn't a big deal and that anyone could read whatever they want. (Within reason of course).

After reading this I looked up past conversations I have had with Bryan to try and see where he was coming from... or if this was really what he believed, or if was an answer someone else suggested.

I found this bit that I had sent him back in July of '09: Anti-Mormon. Mormon J. Nelson-Seawright writes that "the terminological sleight of hand involved in the label ‘anti-Mormon’ allows [Mormons] to ignore the differences between honest and honorable men and women who oppose us, on the one hand, and unprincipled villains, on the other." Mormon Joni Hilton advises fellow members: "First of all, anti-Mormon literature, Internet sites, conversations, ideas, etc. are like spiritual pornography. Once they are in the mind, they are very difficult to get rid of. As you try to reach out to your husband, I would advise you to avoid any material, even if you think it might help you understand him better. You don’t want those seeds of doubt planted in your own mind, because no one is immune to them." -found from mrm.org

Bryan never responded to that email (He was usually pretty busy, no fault on his part) He did say this when I asked if it was ok for him to even read this stuff: "We can find and read anything…. Just type anything in google, and you can read stuff. I have talked to two bishops about the things I am learning with you. They don’t have a problem with anything. They are happy I am learning more about the church."

I can't go back and 'un-learn' all the "Anti-Mormon" literature I've ever read, but I can be shown that it was in error... I have to say that I would never join a church or religion without doing my own investigation into both the good and the bad. (Not that I haven't made the mistake of doing just the opposite in the past...) I don't expect the history of the LDS church to be perfect. But I do become concerned when I find that certain truths are being 'hidden' or 'harder to find'. If I was a missionary of the LDS church I would give as objective a picture as possible to those I was trying to convert. I wouldn't want to white-wash history and present a favorable view of the religion just to get numbers. (Not saying this is what Bryan's doing... in fact we made an agreement that he would never 'trick' anyone into the church by using shady tactics or omitting key information that would otherwise deter their joining the LDS church.)

Even within Christianity... As a Christian, I am disgusted at the mirrors and smoke employed to show Christianity in a favorable light. The dirty truth is that almost every early follower of Christ was called to serve as a martyr. Believing in Christ is not a way to get rich or "Live Your Best Life Now". It's not a means to get more friends or be accepted. I want so much to inform potential converts of true Christianity. That they may die for Christ, that it's easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. That we must take up our cross and follow Him, forsaking all others... Not even "wasting the time" to bury your own father. If this type of thing were to be considered "Anti-Christian Literature then I would be buying it in bulk and distributing it to every serious believer I encounter. Oh wait, I guess that is what I'm doing. Haha.

So if Anti-Mormonism is what's keeping me from having a testimony of the truth of the LDS church then I would that Elohim just keep His testimony. For if He's not strong enough to overcome a few misled "Mormon haters" then He's not who I thought He was.

What do you think? Should Mormons read "Anti-Mormon" material? Should Christians read Atheistic material? Would/could this material be the cause to keep someone from seeing the truth? Or might it be possible for God to make Himself real to even Christopher Hitchens before he succumbs to his cancer? (I pray for your healing Christopher)

Grace and Peace!

1 Year Anniversary! :D

2010-12-30T14:43:00.001-05:00

I just happened to look at the date of this blog's inaugural post: 12/29/09

So I'm a day late but I wanted to at least call attention to this momentous occasion! :)

We've gone through quite a bit of changes in the last year and have even more in store for you starting right away in 2011!

Looking forward to finding truth with all of you. Thanks for a wonderful year!

Merry Christmas!

2010-12-27T14:15:00.001-05:00

MERRY CHRISTMAS and a HAPPY NEW YEAR!!

From Elder Meyer, buahahahahahhahahahahhahaha no

Merry Christmas

2010-12-24T23:40:00.002-05:00

I have the awesome blessing of being able to post right before Christmas. Christmas, I love Christmas! Why? Because it is a time when most people are open to the subject of Jesus! Is December 25th really Jesus's birth 'date', no, but it is a day we have adapted to acknowledge the birth of our Saviour and I love this extremely easy opportunity to talk about Him! And it is really easy when you have kids. I love the look on people's faces when they ask my kids, "So, what is Santa going to bring you?" and we politely and lovingly tell them we don't 'do' the Santa thing. And tell them why 'we' celebrate Christmas. Even though St Nicholas was a great man and did good things, he certainly will not take away from my Lord. But truly I could never understand why people would try to encourage their kids to believe in a man (Santa) who they can't see that brings gifts only for them to find out it was all a lie and then truly not understand why these same kids have trouble believing in another man (Jesus) that they also can't see who wants to give them a gift but is not a lie. Hmm....

Wherever you, the reader, are this Christmas, whether alone or with family or with friends, my prayer is that you will find the love of Christ and understand what He did by coming into this world, dying for us, being raised from the dead and is ever interceding for us at the right hand of the Father. And truly have the joy of Christmas filling your heart until it bursts!

Be Blessed!

Debbie

Atheism vs. Theism

2010-12-15T22:07:00.002-05:00

Hey guys! And Gals! ;) I'd like to dedicate this post to some things I've been going though lately.

The image above is a "cheap shot" at atheists... Making fun of people who believe something different from you is an incredibly easy thing to do. I mean, Atheists are pros at taking their own cheap shots at religion!

Yeah...

How does this relate to Christianity and Mormonism? It doesn't. But you can make anything relate to anything with a little bit of duct tape.

Christians can poke fun at Mormons for trying to become Gods, not drinking coffee, having soooooo many kids ;). Mormons can make fun of Christians, well for a whole lot of things... ha... believe me, there are things.

But there's more to it than just poking fun at other people... There's an amazing conversation to be had with people who are critical of your views. If you spend all your time listening/reading/watching only things you agree with, you'll never learn anything new. You'll never be challenged. You'll grow complacent and begin to forget why you believe what you believe. When you talk to people who agree with you, you can let things slip. Say things a little more casually than they deserve... Then when you come across someone who doesn't share your beliefs you find you can't articulate exactly what it is you believe... You might not even remember why it is you believe what you believe!

So this is a post of admonition. Let's get past our differences, as LDS, Ortho-Christian, Atheist, Agnostic, and Scientol- well... yeah.... tis' the season after all... ;)

Here's a Facebook group that might be good for some of you to practice on. It's a discussion forum between atheists and theists. Enter at your own risk, I am not responsible for the content some people may post ;)

Short n sweet ;) But hey, if you've got any questions about Mormonsim, Christianity, or whatnot, please ask away!

Cheers!

Where was the Atonement again?

2010-12-10T17:49:00.010-05:00

Hello! Soo it's finals week. :/ Forgive me for shirking my duty of posting due to stress and studying and more stress. ha However, yesterday I received a letter from the ever so famous Elder Bryan Meyer who sent a post he wrote along with his letter. So today, we will be hearing from Bryan Meyer. Enjoy! (His post was kinda confusing. haha He did it really fast so I'll try to make it make sense.)

Hey everybody! This is Elder Bryan Meyer posting-ing through his good friend Michelle. I have awesome blog ideas, but I have hardly any time to write them. So I'll save them for 2 years. By that time I will forget them. So...

The mission is great. Hard, but great. I love it. I've helped a lot of people. It's grrrrreat!

Hopefully Michelle won't ruin this small post. So if there are any mistakes with anything, blame her. :D (you see what I put up with?? ;) haha jk he's an amazing friend.)

This post is about the atonement. And when it happened. I've been confused why everybody is confused about when it happened. Not confused but... why Mormonism says it took place in the Garden and Christian sects says it took place on the cross.

Garden of Gethsemane:
Matthew 26:39:
39. And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.

It says this cup. Referring to having possession.

Luke 22:42-44:
42. Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.
43. And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.
44. And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Likewise, it says this. It also said an angel strengthened him. It also says he was in agony and great drops of blood were falling.

Mark 14:35-36:
35. And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
36. And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.

It says this cup and this hour.

Now, the cross:
Matthew 27:46:
46. And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Mark 15:34:
It says the exact same thing as Matthew 27.

John 19:28, 30:
28. After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
30. When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.

Which of these two sounds more like the atonement? In the Garden it talks about his suffering, his feelings, the blood falling from him and an angel strengthening him. The cross just says the few things he said. Nothing about his pain or an angel having to strengthen him. In John 19:28, 30 it is unclear on what he is referring to. The scripture being fulfilled could be the lifting up on the cross and the end of the atonement. Death was a part of the atonement. So the scriptures are fulfilled and his ministry/mission/last step of the atonement is over.

So ya, that's all I have time for. Hopefully this all made sense. May God be with you until I post again. Fare thee well!
-Elder Meyer

This is Michelle. I want to add something I learned yesterday that I thought was just interesting. When you lose a lot of blood you become very very thirsty. He said while on the cross that he was thirsty. When they gave him vinegar I thought they were kind of spiting him. He wanted water, but instead they gave him something nasty. Vinegar and gall. In reality, in those days they used vinegar and gall to deaden pain. They were trying to make it easier on him, but he had to refuse because he had to do it alone which is why the Lord drew his spirit from him in the garden as well. The physical pain Christ went through wasn't the atonement. We all go through physical pain. He had to suffer each persons emotional and physical pain which happened in the Garden and that's what made the atonement what it is. None of us has ever had to deal with that. And we never have to deal with our pains by ourselves because he suffered them for us. We can always go to him. Anyways, that's my little spiel.

(Matthew 27:34: They gave him vinegar to drink mingled with gall: and when he had tasted thereof, he would not drink.)

Have an amazing week!
~Michelle

Written by Michelle and Bryan.
Michelle+Bryan= Brychelle! :P

The Chosen One/ Faith: Myth or Legend?

2010-11-29T00:16:00.000-05:00

As The Chosen One, I shall bring balance to the Farm! I was nominated by the Academy Awards to be a contributer on this amazing blog so here comes the introduction of...The Chosen one!
Name: Jacob Andrew McClellan

Former Place of living: Provo, Utah

Current Place of living: Mapleton, Utah(which has one traffic light and one gas station)

Claims to Fame: Got stuck under a garage door, drove a van by the age of 7, stuck my head between two basketball poles(Bryan knows all about it.) :)
Favorite Color: Green with a hint of sky blue

Favorite Fruit: Kiwifruit

Dreams and Hopes: Grow a kiwifruit farm in Utah. Become a famous business man and sip lemonade out of a twisty, bendy straw that tastes like strawberries.

Social Security Number: If I don't know it, why should you?! :)

I am excited to start contributing to this blog! This is the first post I've ever posted in me whole life, so nobody can criticize without my permission....you have my permission. :) I am of the LDS church and it has been an incredible experience. I have known Bryan since 7th grade so....a lot of years.

Faith is a crucial part of the LDS religion. Even more crucial than kiwis are to the New Zealand culture. That's a lot of crucial! Anywho, let's get down to the basics. Faith is defined by Alma in Alma 32:21 as "Faith is not to have a perfect knowledge of things; therefore if ye have faith ye hope for things which are not seen, which are true.". I always think of Santa Claus when I read this verse. :) Now faith requires two things for it to work wholeheartedly, action and power. I have a story about a man:

Once upon a time, there was a man. The end!!....just kidding :) And because this man was a rock climber, this man decided to climb up Ayers Rock in Australia. He's strolling all around on this rock, when he decides to look out at the view. It was a gorgeously, blisteringly hotly day in Australia. Something shiny below him caught his eye. He leans out farther to try to see it. Nope, can't see it. So, he leans farther out. Still couldn't tell what it was. So, he leans even farther out, when all of a sudden!!....
Falling....

falling....

falling.....til he snags a tree branch jutting out from the cliff wall! Now he starts praying like never before!

"Lord, please help me off of this cliff, I have a life to live! I have places to go and people to see! I have a wife who I love dearly, I have three children who I hope love me! I still haven't finished my 1000 piece puzzle I started in 7th grade!".

Well, after a time, God answers, "Hmmm...would you let go of the branch if I sent a helicopter with a ladder to save you?"

"Oh yes, Lord! I would let go!"

"Alright, would you let go of the branch if I sent a rescue squad to save you?"

"Yes oh yes! I would ever so let go!"

"Good, good. Now, will you let go of the branch if I told you I was going to send a burst of wind so powerful that it would blow you back up to the top of the cliff?"............

The Official End

Faith requires that we put our trust in the Lord. It is not an easy thing to do. But it is always worth it.

Now put yourself in this dude's position. Would you have enough faith to believe that the Lord would push you back up by wind? Previous to the story, I said the faith requires action and power. God provides the power, the only question is: will you provide the action?

May your kiwis grow ever so large and may your Christmas be merry!
P.S. Another scripture on faith: Hebrews 11:1.

Good or Evil - is there a difference?

2010-11-24T01:30:00.005-05:00

This month I would like to open some discussions on the subject of movies. I believe in our culture the movie/tv industry plays a large role in people's lives. One single television show can capture a viewer for a whole season, or more. And one movie can be the topic around the dinner table for months.

In recent years I am very puzzled with the infatuation of all the 'witchcraft' & 'vampire' themes that are out there. I know it's been around a long time - but it seems to have taken a shift. Now the warlocks and vampires are the good guys? Honestly, I don't even understand the attraction to 'horror' flicks. Many Christian families I know and love are thrilled with all these Harry Potter & Twilight movies. Many love the 'dark' characters who somehow have become the 'stars' of the film industries.

On a brief word study I did on the word, 'light', it seems that this is a place or example of who or what we are suppose to be or follow after, instead of pursuing things reserved for darkness. I found several scriptures supporting this belief. (just a few off the top: John 8:12, Matt 5:14, Job 12:22, Psm 18:28) Even God in the beginning of Genesis saw the need to separate the light from the darkness. Now, I know in some of these cases we are talking about physical light and dark, but I believe there is something more here.

Don't misunderstand me, I love a good action or romance film like the next gal, however how did we come to a place where our classic good against evil...and good wins (the important part, lol) get to a place where we don't even know which characters are the good ones or the evil ones. The Lord of the Rings is a good example. My family love these movies and there is much 'evil' in it. But the writer doesn't blur the line between who is good and who is evil. From the beginning it is clear who is the 'good' and who is the 'evil' and the importance that the good is suppose to win, and does, according to the finale of the movies. Great, classic story line. But, more and more movies 'blur' that line and it is getting harder to see the 'light' and 'dark' sides.

Lastly, if we read in 2 Tim 1:7 that God has not given us a spirit of fear.....then why do so many seek after 'fear' as a form of entertainment?

Hmmm, ok, I'm ready for opposition - I think (lol)

Deception

2010-11-16T13:02:00.001-05:00

de·cep·tion

1. The use of deceit.

2. The fact or state of being deceived.

3. A ruse; a trick.

de·ceive
1. To cause to believe what is not true; mislead.
2. Archaic To catch by guile; ensnare.

This week in conversation with Michelle, the question came up of "If you could ask President Monson one question and get his answer, what would that question be?" For myself, I'd like to ask him the following question:

How do you know that you aren't being deceived?

Michelle said she'd love to hear that conversation and I myself would love to hear his answer! Thinking about it, there's really only one answer I can come up with: You don't.

The whole point of being deceived, is that you don't know about it. Sure you could eventually come to a conclusion that you have been deceived, but at that point you're no longer caught in the deception. To what you were once blind, you can now see clearly.

How then are we to be sure of anything? Well as far as I can tell, the best way to root out deception, is to ask the hard questions. The awkward questions, the ugly questions. Being skeptical of everyone and everything is healthy in my view. There are far too many people/organizations out there that have scientifically perfected the art of deception, to the point where well meaning followers can deceive others without even knowing they're deceived themselves!

I know this to be true, just look at the two faiths represented in this Blog. Mormonism and Christianity. Both religions have devout followers that believe spreading their message is one of our greatest priorities. But in the end, only one, if one of these religions can be true. It is easy for me to suspect Joseph Smith as a deciever, and in turn to see every Mormon as a well meaning deceived-deceiver only trying to do what they think is best. It was a little more difficult to try and see my own Christian brothers and sisters in the same light. But I had to, I have to hold myself to the same standard as I hold others. I have to hold Christianity to the same standard I hold Mormonism.

So how about it: Are you currently being deceived by what you believe to be true? How would you go about trying to make sure that you aren't? I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

Outer Darkness, Spirit Prison and Hell. Are they Different?

2010-11-14T19:00:00.045-05:00

No.

Okay that’s my post. Wanted to keep it short. See ya!

What? You expect more from me then that?? Jeez. High maintenance.

Alright well, first off, what I say is what the LDS church teaches. I'm curious about what other faiths believe though soo... tell me. :)

Something about Outer Darkness and such:

We believe that if you are not baptized in the LDS church before your death you go to spirit prison where you can be taught the gospel in heaven and then someone on earth can do the work for you and you can actually be moved out of spirit prison. Since there’s a post about the different heavens on here, I’ll assume you will know what I’m talking about. If you don’t, read Bryan’s post called “Heaven? Heavens?” There are things that must be completed on earth for you to reach the celestial kingdom so having your baptismal work done for you after you’re dead will not get to you to that state, but you can enter the telestial kingdom.

Something else about Outer Darkness and such (Don’t you love these headings? They’re really helpful.):

This will probably come as a shock to some people. I’m pretty sure it caught me by surprise. You don’t go to Hell for being “bad”. If you murder someone on earth you will be judged by God at the judgment bar and will have to repent and such, but it does not qualify you for Hell. Sending someone to Hell is a serious matter, it’s not just for people who made a wrong decision. It’s saved for the worst sin that can be committed. Denying God. If you know and believe in God and have his spirit with you and know the truth then you actively and knowingly reject Him that is an unpardonable sin. That will bring a path to Outer Darkness. I’m pretty sure my teacher also mentioned that not even Hitler would be sent there…

Something more about Outer Darkness including examples (and such):

We have some examples of this in the Bible. (There are also things about this in the Book of Mormon, but I try to not quote from the BOM as much. Since the Bible is the common book of teachings. If you want to hear what the BOM has to say about it though tell me. I’ll post some stuff from it.) Jonah was a prophet of God, right? Well of course right. Jonah had gone against God and was in the “belly of Hell” not literally, but spiritually. In Jonah Ch. 2 it says:

1 Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish’s belly,

2 And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the

belly of hell cried I, and thou heardest my voice.

3 For thou hadst cast me into the deep, in the midst of the seas; and the floods compassed

me about: all thy billows and thy waves passed over me.
4 Then I said, I am cast out of thy sight; yet I will look again toward thy holy temple.

This next one is from Matthew. I think it’s saying that people who commit sins on the earth, but do nothing to the spirit of people are not those we need to fear. Well… don’t take that to seriously. You might die. Fear them. By all means. But eternally, and spiritually. Don’t. Fear those who tear down your spirit. Because once you lose your spirit and what is true (Heavenly Father and Christ) you will lose your place in Heaven.

Matthew Ch. 10

28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

Well I don't have anything else to say right now, but I can answer questions! Thank you for tuning in. :) (p.s. the verses were having troubles posting in the right format so they're randomly spaced and on random lines. haha)

Remember Remember the 25th of December?

2010-11-06T00:24:00.006-04:00

"Remember, remember the 25th of December,

The Birth of Christ our Lord,

I know of no reason why the Birth of Christ

Should ever be ignored."

Hey Merryamartyr here!

It's my first post so be nice...

Today were gonna talk about religious holidays. Whether Mormon or Christian we share many of the same "Holy Days" and we all put a ton of focus on these occasions. Christmas, Easter, Pioneer Day, Good Friday, Palm Sunday, April 6th, or May 15th; all these days have great importance to our religions and in turn to who we are. What I would like to discuss is whether or not they should play as large of a role as they do.

In Christianity, the attendance of Church meetings double for Easter and Christmas which is great but what is the real cause. Many people feel they need to be better on Sunday because they are nearer to God or maybe he is watching more closely and this is amplified even more on these "Holy Days". I mean should we really treat our neighbors more kindly during the holidays or should we be better Samaritans all year. Should we merely contemplate the wonderful miracle and mystery of our Saviors birth on the 25th of December and his death and resurrection on easter or would it serve us better to keep this Good News on our lips all year long.

I am not saying there is anything wrong with celebrating these days but are they really more important than any other day. Wouldn't we make just that much more of an impact on the world if every day we gave liked Christmas, meditated on God's goodness like Easter, or _______________ like on Pioneer Day! ( Someone explain that one to me :D ) Anyway, these are just my thoughts, I am much more interested in hearing yours!

In the Love of Christ,

Merryamartyr

Misconstrued Much?

2010-11-03T02:14:00.006-04:00

Hello, all you funny little internet goblins. Sorry I'm late by a day or so. Here's a quick thought.

When you try to define any religion solely by the contents of their respective scripture, you're going to oversimplify, generalize and assume a dangerous amount of information that may or may not be true. I've seen plenty of books and websites that are devoted to thoroughly refuting the Bible of any credibility it may claim—and come to think of it, the same is true for the book of Mormon.

Now, I'm a Christian, and though I may often be ashamed of the believers, I'm not ashamed of the God I believe in. Furthermore, I believe the Bible to be his own directly inspired word.

But here's the thing—it's not a rulebook, it's a narrative. It's a story about people being people and God being God. Therein lies the potential for enormous conflict and insane amounts of perversion and sin—some graphically depicted, no punches pulled. Let's be honest here—the Bible is chock full of things that kids under seventeen aren't allowed to see at the movies.

<=[Mum and Daddy forgot to fast-forward through the Ezekiel 23 part.]

So what does the Bible have to do with me? It's an inspiration and a conduit for Truth—even if that truth is metaphorical and not literal—and it's a way to open my perception. It's a way for my very finite mind to learn, no matter how vaguely, how to recognize the appearance, movements, characteristics and habits of God. That's the important part.

Are there some literal truths in there? Oh, yeah. You can bet on it—the Bible has proven time and again to be more scientifically and historically accurate than scientists and historians themselves, from things like the existence of King David or the Hittites to the evidence of the universe literally having been created from nothing. Do some research and utilize your friendly neighborhood Google. This info is common knowledge now, but nobody likes to admit the Bible's historical accuracy had one-upped them at any time on any matter.

But I'm not here to prove the accuracy of the Bible and my point remains the same: while I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God himself, it's still only a book. It's only a book because without God's Spirit, it can accomplish nothing and prove nothing. That's why people who try to pick holes in Christianity by way of the Bible think they've already won so solidly—they've reduced the entire movement to the words in a book. Once they experience the movement of God in their life for what it is and can still refute it with logic, then I'll be impressed.

It hasn't happened yet. I don't think it will.

Happy Halloween Almost!

2010-10-23T00:03:00.003-04:00

Hi. I’m back! And yes, that's me. Ta-da! I know this is long overdue. To get on with it, I’ve decided to write about abstinence. I’m not actually sure why… It’s not something I’ve been thinking about lately or anything, but I think someone said something about it in church a couple weeks ago and it just seemed like a good thing to write about.

Q: LDS members abstain from everything that isn’t church related and the rest of the world deems “fun”. True or False?

A: You better have said false.

Q: LDS members abstain from everything that isn’t church related and the rest of the world deems “fun” except for Lemonade. True or False?

A: True.

Don’t quote me on that. :P That’s absurd. Of course it’s not true!

I’m going to start with a short story about a boy named Glenn. Chelsea will know who I’m talking about. Haha One night when we were freshman in high school, Chelsea and I were on my computer and I wanted to add a friend from school to my msn messenger. (Yes, this story comes from the days when that was new and huge.) His email address had the word kryptonite in it. So I typed in his email and added him on there only to find the person I added was online so we started talking to him. Chels and I found out soon enough that this was not the right person. We had just added a boy one year older than us who was from Belgium!! He spoke pretty good English though and we actually ended up becoming friends with him. (I later found that my friend I was trying to add spelled kryptonite differently for his email.) I talked to him and he found out I was LDS. He asked me some questions because he’d heard of our church. He asked about polygamy (surprise surprise :P) and about us not drinking alcohol. We talked about not smoking, using any form of drugs, drinking alcohol or coffee, etc. He couldn’t understand it, but after a little while he said, “Wait, so can you just not have anything that your body can become addicted to?” Bingo! I don’t think I’d ever thought of it that way, probably partially because of my age, but it’s the basic reason. As LDS members, we do not use anything that could even remotely bring about the possibility of addiction. Everyone knows that the LDS church has the Book of Mormon besides the bible. We actually have another book of scripture as well called the Doctrine and Covenants which was written by Joseph Smith about the latter day revelations the church was receiving. It’s also a history of the church after it was restored by him. In Section, or Chapter, 89 we have what we call the Word of Wisdom. It’s revelation of what is good and bad for our bodies.

D&C 89:4-9

4 Behold, verily, thus saith the Lord unto you: In consequence of evils and designs which do and will exist in the hearts of conspiring men in the last days, I have warned you, and forewarn you, by giving unto you this word of wisdom by revelation—

5 That inasmuch as any man drinketh wine or strong drink among you, behold it is not good, neither meet in the sight of your Father, only in assembling yourselves together to offer up your sacraments before him.

6 And, behold, this should be wine, yea, pure wine of the grape of the vine, of your own make.

7 And, again, strong drinks are not for the belly, but for the washing of your bodies.

8 And again, tobacco is not for the body , neither for the belly, and is not good for man, but is an herb for bruises and all sick cattle, to be used with judgment and skill.

9 And again, hot drinks are not for the body or belly.

So yeah. Don’t get addicted to things. Besides, usually the things people get addicted to are very harmful for the body. The substances are impure and are not natural. Anyways, that’s one form of abstinence.

Another one … fidelity to your spouse. And clean moral standards. Abstinence from any temptations of sexual behavior. There’s not much to say about this one. It’s not only in the the LDS faith that people have the belief that you “wait until your wedding night”. However, I’ve never heard it stressed more by someone outside of my church. It’s hurtful towards our Heavenly Father to treat his gift to us of our bodies wrongly. They are delicate and are meant to be respected and need to be respected. Choosing to not abstain from this can lead to a lot of heartache, a lot of problems in families and your own personal life and it is not worth the risk.

Since Elder Packer is pretty popular right now I will quote him. Elder Boyd K. Packer said, “Now words can be used as weapons against you. If they throw the word diversity at you, grab hold of it and say, “I am already diverse, and I intend to stay diverse.” If the word is tolerance, grab that one, too, saying, “I expect you to be tolerant of my lifestyle—obedience, integrity, abstinence, repentance.” If the word is choice, tell them you choose good, old-fashioned morality. You choose to be a worthy husband or wife, a worthy parent.”

The end. That’s all. Goodnight. Amen.

How Are You Doing!?!

2010-10-22T11:15:00.003-04:00

Life is always full of surprises, challenges and changes. Recently our family has made a big move from Michigan to Texas. Not only is the climate completely different, I am finding that the people and culture are very different too. It always amazes me how even though we all live within the United States, each state has it's own 'flavor' and way of doing things. But for all the differences I see, one thing still remains. All people are looking for validation of their existence and love, true love and for someone to care about them. This observance had me thinking... 'do I properly display the love that Jesus Christ had shown or the type of love that our society teaches'? Surface, self-seeking love seems to be pretty common in our culture. It was long after I started thinking about this, that I was tested on this very topic.

I find this type of love where ever I go. Even at church, at times. Most greetings today include, 'how are you' and the most typical response is 'good' or the occasional church going response of 'blessed and highly favored', but I can't help but wonder if it is a true statement and should I attempt to dig deeper to see if indeed they are 'good' or just let it go, because after all I have my own issues, too. (note the hint of sarcasm)

We are currently staying in an RV park as we are looking for property. There are many, many dog owners in this park who break just about every dog 'rule' that the park has set up. One evening my 7 year old and another friend took our beloved Labrador to the pet park to throw a ball around with him. Another woman came to the park without having her dog on a leash and their dog got away from her and barked quite aggressively at our 7 year old. Our lab, who instinctively protects our little girls, picked up this 'lap dog' who was about a tenth of his size and shook it around like a rag doll and sent quite a message to leave his owners alone. Now...here is the challenge, with the woman crying hysterically the husband shouting out every swear word I believe he posses in his limited vocabulary...can I display the love of Christ I know He wants me to yet still not get walked all over by this unreasonable soul? Hmmm, I'm usually up to a good challenge - so I dive in.

After we determined that both dogs were going to be ok (well, theirs needed a couple stitches-ouch) I tried to get his focus off the dog and on to his personal life. Focusing on the dogs weren't producing anything good - they refused to admit their dog was equally at fault as our dog was. Eventually I was able to break though. Even though she rejected my offer to pray with her, after a day her husband did allow me to speak 'God' into their lives. Come to find out that his wife's mom died a few months ago, their son was in a bad car accident a few years ago and she still carries a ton of grief around from these two events. She is on anti-depressants, common for women in their 40-50's, these days and generally is having a hard time with life. She views this dog as her entire life.

This experience of showing God's love, I find, was much harder than praying for waitress with a brace on her wrist, or for the friend that needs a job. I don't know what God is going to do with this new contact, in fact the park had to move our location for 3 weeks because of a scheduling error, and wouldn't you know it is only 3 lots down from this couple - God does have a sense of humor.... but it always amazes me that if we stop and take the time to find out what is in people's lives, they usually open up and let you see a little about truly 'how they are doing'.

My hope, as a Christian, is to always display the love that God the Father has shown to me through Jesus Christ and even though I may not be perfected in it I must keep trying. After all, isn't Jesus' reputation is on the line?

John 13:35 (By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”-NKJV)

Debbie

Post from Elder Meyer

2010-10-18T16:16:00.002-04:00

Hellllo!

This is Elder Meyer.

I havent read any of the posts, except for the last ones.

I know this church is true! :D

the mission is really hard, but fun. I am helping alot of people come unto Christ. Spanish is... alright. I can understand most, and can speak a good amount. But not enough to be confident. Lame sauce.

i am surprised i have been out for 2.5 months, but at the same time it feels like i have been gone for years. Its really weird...

looks like the blog is doing well. I dont have much time left on the computer. in fact, i have about a minute. So i will end with this:

Studies show that birthdays are good for your health. The more you have the longer you live.

Knowing.

2010-10-13T12:27:00.000-04:00

No, this isn't a movie review post ;) Although I did like this movie, it was about Nick Cage finding this string of numbers and finding recognizable clusters that represented the days in which there were mass losses of life due to an incident. He was eventually able to decipher the numbers down to a point where he not only could match past events, but also predict future events! Not wanting to give the movie away I'll stop there.

So, it's been a while guys! Bryan's been gone for about 2.5 months... I've been getting along alright, it's been weird tho... lonely at times. But I was able to write him a giant letter and even got one back! He told me all about the training center and how much work it was :P The second half of his letter was devoted to his bearing his testimony to me :) I enjoyed the letter and his bearing his testimony to me.

He told me that he wasn't wasting two years of his life for something he "thought" was true, he said that he "knows" the church is true. So that brings me to the topic of today's post: Knowing.

What does it mean to know something? The Free Dictionary puts it this way: Possessing knowledge, information, or understanding. So according to this we can know that the Earth revolves around the Sun... But I guess we could also 'know' that the Sun revolves around the earth, right? I mean before Galileo Galilei, the knowledge of the time was undoubtedly that the Earth revolves around the Sun (The Sun also having a major role in the aforementioned movie). So I guess it's possible for people to know (to possess knowledge, information, or understanding) things that are not factually true.

What does it mean then, when Bryan tells me he's not just serving a mission because he "thinks" it's true, but rather that he "knows" it's true? I guess they mean the same thing, except by using the word "know" it's somehow supposed to mean more than thinks?

I know that 2 and 2 make 4, at least I think I know... I've been taught addition in math class, it makes sense to me, I try it out and it continues to yield the correct answers for me. As far as I can tell, that knowledge is true. Not that I am the authority on truth, but based on the reasoning skills I possess, I am fully convinced of the truthfulness of the science of addition.

I know Bryan believes Mormonism to be the one true religion, I'm sure he thinks it is, I'm also sure he 'knows' it is. But that doesn't make it true, does it? I'd say not at all, even myself, in my assessment of what Bryan knows, I could be wrong. :P Bryan can be wrong too.

For me, instead of using words like 'know' and 'believe' I'd much rather use words like "I am fully convinced". This way I can tell others that I am aware that the evidence itself doesn't make it's own conclusions, that I am the one drawing conclusions from the evidence... That I am fully convinced that Christianity is true, and that Mormonism is not. I could have been wasting the last 8 years on something I "thought" was true. I admit, it's possible for me to be wrong.

I miss Bryan, I know that no matter what, these two years for him will not be wasted. Either way, he's going to be learning a lot, me too! We've got tons of 'knowledge' that we can attain to help us better shape our conclusions right?

Haha, sorry if this is all over the place, but it's something I've been thinking about for a while.

The Initiate Speaketh?

2010-09-29T20:41:00.007-04:00

To all the people in the house who regularly give serious thought to what they believe:

You are wonderful and refreshing, whether you're Christian, Mormon, Buddhist or Atheist. Unless you're Rasta. Thinking and Rastafarianism are mutually exclusive.

[This level of compounded stupidity is absolutely terrifying.]

This would actually be my first contribution to this blog, and I am ashamed (somewhat) to say that it's not going to be as technical or fancy as everyone else's, in all probability. I'm an abstract thinker and somewhat shaky when it comes to holding on to a train of thought. However. I may have some good thoughts for you. I hope. I'm just going to use my first post to briefly explain why I'm still a Christian.

Put simply, I believe it's the truth. But the most compelling reason for that, surprising as it may sound, has nothing to do with the numerous paths of logic which have so heavily influenced my weak and doubting faith. It's the people. Paul will probably want to kick my butt when I finish posting this. It was supposed to be full of scholarly research and similar nonsense. But it's true: I'm a Christian because there's something empowering and liberating about being with Christians. I have talked and eaten and laughed and enjoyed life with people of diverse faiths, but when I'm with people who profess Jesus Christ's redemption, and who have the stunning humility it takes to admit that without a loving God, we can never succeed, I feel truly free and truly cared for. The freedom that comes from submitting to a God so merciful that He'd save even someone as pitiful and disgusting as me is enough to make my whole life different. And it makes me want to inspire that kind of change in other people.

I've heard many people say the Christian faith is logically inconsistent because it's so full of paradoxes. I don't think that's true. The Christian faith IS one big, beautiful paradox—all of it—even the parts that make sense. Because at the root, it started with love, and it moves and breathes through love, and God Himself is love, but love is something nobody fully understands. The rest is just details. That's where I'm coming from, and that's the standpoint I'll be writing in my future posts—the ones where I'll specifically be writing about the “details”.

I've been told I'm not one-hundred percent sane. I've been told I'm incapable of forming a coherent argument. But then again, like the Bible says in First Corinthians 1:27,

“God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful.”

Let us hope so. I look forward to digging into questions of faith with all of you, be you Mormon, Christian, or Druids.

[Any worshipers of Kernunnos in the house? No? ...I guess I'm not surprised.]

Be blessed. I'll be back next month.

When I grow up, I wanna be a gladiator!

2010-09-20T01:15:00.003-04:00

Alrighty alrighty! Sorry that this post is kind of late... I am going to talk about Grace and what Mormons believe about Grace. This is a pretty deep subject, so I am just going to focus on the basics.

Grace is the divine help or strength given through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. (The Atonement is very central to Grace.) It is a gift given to us. It is not something we can earn because we would never be able to do anything sufficient enough to receive it as an entitlement. Because we have agency, we all experience the consequences and effects of sin, or spiritual death. None of us would be able to return to the presence of God without grace. Through the Atonement we can come unto Christ and be forgiven. To receive this enabling power, we must obey the Gospel of Jesus Christ which means to have faith in Him, repent of our sins, be baptized, receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost, and follow His teachings for the rest of our lives (Ephesisans 2:8-9; James 2:17-22; 2 Nephi 25:23; 31:20).

There is also a difference between mercy and grace. Mercy is God’s compassion or His patience. God extends His mercy by granting grace to His children.

We believe that through the Grace of God, everyone who has lived will be resurrected and will live forever. (1 Corinthians 15:20-22) But resurrection alone won’t allow us to enter into the presence of our Heavenly Father, and there is a difference between living forever (immortality) and having eternal life (living forever with our Heavenly Father). This is where our part comes in! To be exalted and have eternal life (to live with Heavenly Father and achieve the fullness of Godhood) we must do all that we can do to make ourselves worthy to dwell with our Heavenly Father. Our sins make us unclean and unfit to be in God’s presence, and we need grace to purify and perfect us. But effort is required on our part to receive the fullness of God’s grace. There is a story told by David O. Mckay that illustrates this concept very well. There was a group of boys who were learning to swim when one fell into a treacherous hole in the stream. The boy would have drowned but for the quick-thinking companion who extended a branch to him and helped pull him to shore. He says: "There are those who claim that no one will sink and be lost if he will look to Jesus on the shore and say, ‘I believe’. There are others who declare that every one must, by his own efforts, swim to the shore or be lost forever. The real truth is that both of these extreme values are incorrect. Christ redeemed all men from death which was brought upon them through no act of theirs, but He will not save men from their personal transgressions who will put forth no effort themselves, any more than the young rescuer on the river bank could have saved the drowning lad if the latter had not seized the means provided him. Neither can man save himself without accepting the means provided by Christ for man’s salvation” Works must be coupled with grace so we can be cleansed from our sins and be perfected.

Soooo That’s all folks! I would love questions or any input or insights!

Restoration of... A Car.

2010-08-18T03:11:00.004-04:00

Okay okay. Not a car. Don't come to me for that. If you need a tire changed, oil level checked, liquids filled and an occasional battery fixed, I'm your girl. Otherwise, don't come near me.

I had a lesson in church this past Sunday which I thought would be good to use in a post. So I am. Yes, I know it’s thrilling, but please try to contain your excitement. Thank you.

The topic I present to you this week is The Restoration and all the things necessary in the Restoration. This post will tell you of the six basic features that the Latter-day Saint church is built on.

These different sections are:
-Revelation
-Authority from God
-Church Organization
-First Principles and Ordinances
-Ordinances Performed for the Dead
-Spiritual Gifts

Revelation:
Having direct contact to Heavenly Father is very important to the progress of our church. Through the revelation we receive, presidency callings are made for the religion, both in high offices presiding over the entire church as well as callings of smaller responsibility like a Bishop for a single ward. Commandments and teachings in our church come from revelation from God to President Monson. Revelation is used in making decisions for every “calling” in each ward. A calling is a duty in your ward/stake, such as a teacher in a class, a ward missionary, a pianist/chorister, etc. There are 19 year old boys and 21 year old girls who are sent all over the world on missions. Revelation is used in the President’s decision as to where the missionary will be sent and where he/she is needed. The church’s growth comes through missionary work so it is very important that we follow the revelation given and send the missionaries to the specific places that they can do the most good in. We receive personal revelation as well in answers to prayers. Revelation can keep your faith and testimony strong.

Authority from God:
Ordinances performed in the church can only be accomplished and accepted by God from members who have been given that authority by the laying on of hands as did Jesus Christ to Peter. “And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.” (Matt. 16:19) This is how the President of the church, President Thomas S. Monson, is able to govern the church over the whole world. This is also the power by which people are able to be baptized into the LDS church.

Church Organization:
This is a toughy. :P Nah. It’s pretty self-explanatory. When the apostasy occurred, there was confusion. Wrong teachings began being mixed in with true doctrine and what does that make? Confusion. And how effective is running a church on confusion? Well, it’s not. Besides the fact that it’s really hard. So, there MUST be good organization or the church has no structure and it cannot be strong for the members in it. There’s a primary song that goes, “The foolish man built his house upon the sand…” and the next verse says, “The wise man built his house upon a rock…” The church needs a strong, rock foundation. (Primary is for children ages 5-12. It’s their own set of classes that caters to their stage of life.)

First Principles and Ordinances:
These are just the basics of the teachings. There are a very great number of things that can be taught within the LDS religion but you start with the basics. You have to learn 2+2 before you can learn calculus. The first ordinances would be things like baptism and confirmation which is obviously essential to being a member of the church.

Ordinances Performed for the Dead:
Not everyone on earth will have the chance to be baptized. We can get names of family from generations ago and do what we call baptisms for the dead. It’s baptizing that person vicariously. Somebody else is baptized in their place here on earth. Of course, you cannot force baptism upon someone and the person on the other side can either accept or decline the baptism. This is also very important because it isn’t fair to the people who were not given the choice on earth to be baptized or not. Once in heaven they still have the ability to be baptized.

Spiritual Gifts:
Articles of Faith #7- “We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.” I don’t know what to say about these. They are useful and needed in some cases. They are a way for God to bring us closer to him and gives people the gifts when he needs things done on earth that he can’t do. I think missionaries are blessed with the gift of tongues for the duration or their mission. Can you imagine learning a whole language in just a couple of weeks and having to live and communicate with people in… Taiwan?

In our lesson, the teacher asked why these things are needed in the LDS faith. She got three answers. One girl commented that you can’t function as well as a church without just one of those. Something in the church will cave in. Another girl said that without authority from God, you wouldn’t even be able to have a church. If you had all of those things invested into your faith, but had no connection to God you wouldn’t have a church. I commented and stated that it’s through all of these things that our testimonies and faith is built up. They are the building blocks and it’s what we base ourselves as a whole and individually off of.

Because my mom told me.....

2010-08-10T22:16:00.006-04:00

First let me take a minute to properly introduce myself. My name is Debbie. I am a Christian – a proud Christian who loves her Heavenly Father and is grateful to Jesus for making it possible for me to have direct access to God. I have decided to spend my life doing what I can to be a witness for God by following the examples of Jesus. I am not always perfect in that pursuit therefore is grateful for grace, but since quitting is not part of my vocabulary, no matter what situation I face….I win.

I was not raised as a Christian – in fact I wasn’t even raised with any religion at all. It wasn’t until I was living in Hawaii at the age of 21, stuck in a bad marriage, that I realized even though I was living in ‘paradise’ and had a beautiful daughter, my life was completely empty. Off in search of something real – I attended a local denominational church. What a disappointment. As I sat in this church looking at some of the same people I was sure I saw in the bar the night before, all dressed up, stiff necked portraying a God that was boring, impersonal and hard to understand, I realized, no, church wasn’t my answer.

Then, one day, a friend invited me out to a day of shopping, well, if I came to her church with her first. Sneaky, but it worked. I entered this church and noticed that some members were Asian, some were black, some Samoan, some white. Some were wearing suits, some had shorts and dread locks. Some families and some single parents. And each one of them seemed to love this Jesus, whom I didn’t know, and were even having fun worshipping God, who I may add, seemed very interested in their lives. THIS made sense to me. The same God who I later discovered created all the beauty and variety that I saw in nature, was the same God that created all the variety that I see in people. I quickly decided to give my life to this very interesting, loving, capable God and have never gone back on that decision.

God has truly blessed my life. He gave me a new life, a new marriage, and 4 more beautiful children that I have the joy of homeschooling. Now, my eldest daughter & son in law have even blessed me with 2 beautiful granddaughters. I am a blessed lady, indeed. Yes, I suppose I am the ‘seasoned’ one of this blog, for now, but since I plan to live to 120 – I am not even middle aged yet, so watch the ‘old’ jokes. LOL!

Now that you know just a little (and I do mean a little) about me – it brings me to my post ‘question’ for the month. As I stated earlier, I educate my 4 remaining children at home. I choose their curriculum carefully and, of course, include teachings about God and Jesus along with their other studies. Recently I was thinking, I have always tried to challenge my children in critical thinking and try to give them as much opportunity to make many life choices on their own, with my guidance and age appropriate, naturally. But here is my thought; do my children follow God solely because I have indoctrinated my beliefs into them or is it because they truly love the Lord and have come to that conclusion on their own? I mean, my plan is that they will choose to give their lives over to God and serve Him with everything that is in them, make no mistake on that, but my questions is do we, as a society, believe what we do because we had a life changing experience? Or is it possible that someone, even a relative, has indoctrinated us? How about you? Did your parents raise you to believe what they believe, or someone else? How do we know, that we know, that what we believe is from our own discoveries and not just something that was planted by someone else? Hmmmm??

"Just Michelle It"

2010-08-06T13:32:00.003-04:00

Are Mormon's Christian? Yes. Are Christians Christian? uuuh huh. :) But what exactly does it mean to be Christian? Well, there are a lot of different facets to being a Christian. Let's cover different ways in which it means to be "Christian" one at a time.

In the traditional sense, being a Christian simply means to be Christ-like. Going by this meaning, anybody in the whole world can be a Christian. Actually, even someone who is an atheist can be Christ-like. Looking at it this way doesn't put much stock in the meaning of being a Christian. Does it now? In this sense, both Mormons and Christians can be equally Christ-like.

From a Christian's point of view, ahem Paul's, Christianity would be professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus. But guess what, a Mormon, namely me, also has the same view. It would seem that this definition would be interchangable for both faiths. Does that mean that Mormonism and Christianity are the same religion? Well that's just ridiculous. What would be the point in having two separate faiths that are the same. I mean, seriously. So let's find out what's different.

Mormon's and Christian's are indeed two very different religions guys. In fact, it is a common claim that the two religions don't even serve the same Christ. You might ask, well how can there be two different Christs? Does it mean there are two separate people or just that we have different perceptions of the same man? Let's ask the man what he has to say. Hey President Hinckley, do you think Latter-day Saints believe in the “traditional Christ” of Orthodox Christianity? Hinckley replied: "No I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the dispensation of the fullness of times." Based on this quote by Pres. Hinckley, it would seem that only those following the "True Christ" could accurately call themselves Christian. Going by the second definition I gave of being Christian the ones following the false Christ would be anything but Christian.

Soo... going back. Are Mormon's Christian? Well... Yes and no. Are Christians Christian? No and yes. Before you accuse me of being indecisive you just gotta realize that the answer hinges upon which definition you are referring to. Mormon's and Christian's can both be Christ-like while only one faith can serve the one true Christ.

Going back yet again, but this time not quite so far, we have the definition, “professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.” Yes this is true. This can be defined as Christian, but being a Mormon, a Latter-day Saint, I believe it to be something much more involved than that. There are so many aspects and examples to follow. It’s not just having faith that Christ was real and our Savior that makes you Christian. It’s trying your best to follow in his very footsteps. Also, I believe Jesus Christ to be a son of God, in the same way as I am a daughter of God, who gave of himself and came to earth to be a Savior to all people and suffer for the sins of the world so that every person would be able to have a chance at returning to live with Him and our Heavenly Father.

Questions??? + Questions!!! = Questions??!!?! I’m basically expecting questions. Questions of what the differences are, questions of what Pres. Hinckley meant (although I most definitely cannot speak for him), questions of lemonade, etc. Bring it! What I can’t answer, I’m sure Paul would be happy to oblige. :)

Local High School Dropouts Cut In Half

2010-08-04T15:49:00.001-04:00

Language is a funny thing. For at least the past 50 years, people have used language as a primary means of communication. Uses of language range from the simplicity of a common greeting to the intrinsically complicated process of blogging. What makes language work isn't so much the words that are being used, but the meaning that those words carry. Even now, as you read this blog post, you are decoding a message by means of the English language... If you do not speak English then you wouldn't have even gotten this far! You wouldn't know how to "decode" the language.

Now the problem we run into, is that even though two people may possess the ability to understand a certain language, no one I know has completely mastered every word. For example, until recently I thought the word "lethargic" could be used as a synonym to "wistful". When going back to the dictionary, I find that Lethargy has nothing to do with reminiscing and longing for past events, but instead characterizes someone who is too lazy to even care about the past.

To further clarify my point I will say the following sentence: "The crowd became incensed at the thought of their rights being taken from them." The word in question is "incensed", now I don't know about you but the first thing that comes to my mind is that the crowd began burning candles... But that doesn't make much sense in the context does it? I come to find out that "Incense" isn't just an aromatic device released upon being burnt, but it can also mean "to be greatly angered" this new definition fits the aforementioned sentence rather nicely... (almost as if the sentence were constructed for only the sake of this one word)

Words. Definitions. Context.

And I thought communication was supposed to be simple.

Why write about communication in a Mormon/Christian Web Blog? The answer is yes.

We want to have dialog, Mormons, Christians, Atheists, and purple dragons with chocolate toes. In order to make the dialog successful, we need to understand that our words are only as good as the meaning they convey. Where one person may read a headline in the newspaper telling about the number of high-school dropouts being significantly reduced, as much as 50% of previous years, another may be horrified that a school would resort to sawing kids in bloody pieces for simply not being able to tough it out in High School!

Mormons and Christians use a lot of the same words: Salvation, Grace, Faith, Know, Atonement, Authority, Eternity, etc... But I'd like to point out that most of these words carry different meanings for each person. A Mormon might be perfectly OK with saying they are "saved by grace" when I Christian understands this to mean something completely contrary to Mormon Doctrine. It's not that the Mormon is lying, but what we have there is a failure to communicate.

No matter what world-view you are, it is crucial that you have a mutual understanding of what "meanings" are being conveyed to have an effective dialog with someone of another faith. Between Bryan and I, it's take a couple years and even still we're realizing there are words we're still getting hung up one :P If there is ever a moments hesitation of what a phrase, word, letter may mean, I would strongly recommend that you get to the heart of the meaning. Ask the person who said it for further clarification. We all could use a little clarification ;)

A few more examples of under-clarification:

Typhoon Rips Through Cemetery; Hundreds Dead
Miner Refuses to Work after Death
Man Struck By Lightning: Faces Battery Charge
Panda Mating Fails; Veterinarian Takes Over
New Study of Obesity Looks for Larger Test Group
Kids Make Nutritious Snacks

Good bye!

2010-07-26T12:31:00.005-04:00

This might be my last post for two years, unless they let me post once in a while during the mission.

Thank you all for taking your religion seriously. God is real. We need to find out what He wants us to do. All of you will be blessed by your efforts.

Thank you for supporting Paul and I in the blog. We just started this, so there aren't that many followers, but the awesome ones who did follow should get a prize.

Please, continue to study. Continue to learn about your religion. Continue doing the best you can. Make everyday better than the day before it. Continue to the path of perfection.

Alma 5: 49 And now I say unto you that this is the order after which I am called, yea, to preach unto my beloved brethren... yea, to cry unto them that they must repent and be born again.

With Love, Elder Meyer

...Till We Meet Again.

2010-07-26T10:38:00.000-04:00

Bryan, you mean more to us than words can describe, but that doesn't mean we can't at least try ;) Here are some farewell wishes from us here at "A Mormon And A Christian"

--------------------------------------------

Bryan, I have not had the pleasure of meeting you in person or even directly online, however I feel as though I know you through Paul - and may I say...I call you friend. How exciting, this new adventure that you are about to embark upon! My hope is that your trip will fill many desires that you have within your heart and maybe even a few surprise blessings. Have a wonderful trip!

Debbie Bowman

--------------------------------------------

B-ryanlicious Meyer- What I could say to you... could never fit in this message and I don’t want to take up a ton of room. Plus, I’ll prolly talk to you more in person. ha But basically, you've made me a much happier person and have strengthened me and my testimony. You'll never even know how grateful I am that you are in my life. Go forth and serve! You'll be absolutely amazing. :) love ya!

~Honey Wrists ;)

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Bryan "The Hottie" Meyer,

You are one of the most incredible people ever and one of my best friends. Oh the great times we have had together are numberless! You have blessed and enriched my life so much and helped me become a better person. I know that those you come into contact with on your mission will only be blessed and uplifted because of who you are. You will be such a great missionary! I know it! There is so much more I could say, but I know a lot of other people want to brag about you too so I will give them a chance ;)
Love you!

Chels

--------------------------------------------

Amulon,

What can I say... My life has forever been violently shaken thanks to you. Ever since that lonely day in a random Team Fortress 2 server, the most unlikely of friendships has been born. I thank God for having had the privilege to meet you, and through you, I have learned so much more about my God. You've made God more than just "head knowledge" to me, you've made it the best reality I could imagine. I wish you well on your journey and will be praying continually for your safety. God Speed. Lylyab. Waka waka.

-Panos

Hello!

2010-07-19T21:23:00.003-04:00

Hello! My name is Chelsea. Bryan has also been bugging me about introducing myself so here it is. I am LDS (or Mormon) and grew up in Provo, UT. I go to BYU-Idaho and am majoring in Visual Art, with an emphasis in illustration. I have known Michelle forever, we grew up together, and Bryan for several years. I have been reading this blog for a couple months and I am really excited that I was asked to contribute because I love discussing religion and learning about different points of view and beliefs. I have never done this before so we will see how it goes...

Rockstar

2010-07-19T17:52:00.003-04:00

Hello everyone, name is Rocky just joined this blogging network. I am super excited about this never done it before. I hope the experiences I share and the stories will make a difference in youre life as it has mine. I take the Gospel very seriously also I'm Latter Day Saint also known as Mormon. Also you can message me anytime for advice or a question you may have.

Hi.

2010-07-18T18:31:00.002-04:00

Hi. I'm Michelle. Bryan has been getting on my case about introducing myself. So here I am. Introducing myself. I am LDS (aka mormon) and was told today that I'm over the LDS half of this. We'll see how that goes :P I already know Paul though so it's not so bad. ha I'm very excited about this actually. I love helping people with the questions they have for me about my beliefs and the gospel in general. I love discussions and just talking with people so this will be great. Plus I already write on here kind of a lot. ha about me... I go to Utah Valley University and will be majoring in dance education and I live in Provo, Ut. Pleased ta meet ya. :)

Greetings!

2010-07-11T21:14:00.003-04:00

I am so excited to jump in, contribute & learn all I can here on this blog. Thank you, Paul for the invite.

Loving my Heavenly Father, Jesus and trusting the guiding of the Holy Spirit is the easy part, proving & explaining one's beliefs is where the challenge comes in. It's a good thing I love challenges - so let the games begin!

Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes!

2010-07-08T13:25:00.000-04:00

Hey guys! Bryan's going on his Mission to California soon so we've been tossing around ideas on what to do.

This is what we've decided: Bryan's going to ask the powers that be, if he could contribute to the blog from time to time while he's on his call. Even still, we are going to be bringing in 3 LDS peeps to cover for him while he's preoccupied! In the same way, I'll be bringing in two more Christian peeps to help get more ideas flowing, as well as more perspectives and personalties!

I would like to introduce you to Debbie! She's the first of two Christians who will be joining our writing team! We're still working out schedules and how often everyone will post, but I figured we'd better get these done before Bryan's gone! ;)

I've known Debbie for around 7-8 years and trust in her ability to discern truth and also she's a very kind-hearted person. But I will let her give her own introduction as well as an opening post sometime soon!

Aight, be expecting 4 more introductions of this sort, I know Bryan's got at least one person in mind so far ;)

Mission Possible?

2010-06-22T12:54:00.000-04:00

This is what Bryan will be doing for the next two years. Hanging in the air, hacking into highly restricted classified files while the analyst is dealing with... "drainage issues".

Impossible you say? Perhaps... Try this one on for size!

Bryan will spend the next two years of his life as a representative for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. His job description is wide and encompassing, but the focus of this endeavor will be to share the LDS Gospel with whomever will listen, hoping to make them disciples and adding them to the ranks of the Church.

To me, I'd say Tom Cruise had it easy. Personally, I'd never really heard about Mormons till I met Bryan, I mean sure I'd hear the term in passing, but all I really knew about was Jehovah's Witnesses and that they were a cult :P I still don't know much more than that about the JH. But I plan on diving deep into their beliefs sometime soon. Once I get a fair handle on LDS. Now, while I didn't know much about the Mormons, lots of people do, to an extent. Many people are prejudicial in their approach to Mormons, they will slam the door in your face, they will ignore you and give you such a look of disgust you would almost want to cry.

I am not a Mormon, but I've had a similar experience. I was at Kroger (local grocery store) selling candy in the entrance as a part of my churches youth group fund-raiser. I had signed up for maybe 7 or 8 shifts and I loved doing it! You'd learn who to approach and who to just let go after a while... Some would see you and purposely make themselves unapproachable, while others would make themselves fully approachable. Well about my 5th shift this nice old lady came gingerly walking to the entrance. I approached her and asked if she'd like to help out with our fund-raiser, she smiled and said she didn't like candy but she'd love to help give to a church fund-raiser! As she reached into her purse she asked us what church our youth-group was a part of, when my partner told her it was "Faith Christian Family Church" the woman's countenance instantly changed from that of a kind sweet old lady to a horrible monster who wanted to puke!

Obviously she had a "bad experience" with our church or something, but the sad thing is that she took it out on two kids who had no idea who she was! In the same way, I'm sure Bryan will run into situations just like this, many a time over in the course of his two years. I just wish that people would be more cordial to one another... Jesus sat and ate with sinners and unsavory crowds, if you're a professing Christian, then act like one. Give the missionaries a break, give them some lemonade! Talk to them about where you disagree, I happen to know that this Mormon loves it! ;)

I wish Bryan all the best on his mission, while I personally hope he doesn't make a single convert, ;) I do hope that people will treat him with respect and that he shows and is shown the love of Christ. I hope Mormons will come to my house so that I can treat them with the respect they deserve. I am going to go to the store tonight to buy some lemonade so I'll be ready if they do, I challenge you all to do the same, get your lemonade ready, and with the love of Christ lets talk to each other and give a reason for the hope that's within us!

God bless you Bryan!

A post from C-eh, N-eh, D-eh

2010-06-21T22:41:00.002-04:00

Hey everybody! I am here in C-eh, N-eh, D-eh visting my family and going to my cabin. The internet and computer i am on was probably made by Adam himself. Its really slow. So i am not going to my awesome links that everybody loves. Sorry, but this is the only page you'll see on this post.

Anywho, I got my mission call! I was called to San Jose, California. I will teach in Spanish, and i will be leaving July 28th. There is a chance i can continue the blog on the mission, but if not there will hopefully be a replacement as awesome and hot as i am. Is there such a person? We need to ask ourselves that everyday. Buahaha.

I've been pretty busy the last few weeks, and i really cant think of anything amazing to post. Sadly. I would love your ideas! bryguy16@gmail.com

So... this week i am just going to post what us mormons call, The Articles of Faith:

1. We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam's transgression.

3. We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel.

4. We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.

5. We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof.

6. We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.

7. We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

8. We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God.

9. We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God.

10. We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

11. We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may.

12. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

13. We believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, lovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.

-Joseph Smith

Happy Birthday Bryan!

2010-06-20T00:02:00.000-04:00

June 20th. Bryan's B-Day! W007! We should all send him lots of money. He likes money. That is all.

Auntie Em! Anti-M?

2010-06-08T10:53:00.001-04:00

Since diving into the world of Mormonism and learning all I can about as much as I can, I can't help but notice a common trend. A trend where faithful LDS tend to label anything critical of their faith as "Anti-Mormon". I guess I can see why the term is favored, it's a way to completely dismiss the material due to some fault of the person or fashion in which it was presented. I, however, can't help but wish that this term were abandoned altogether, as it suggests one is opposed to the Mormon in particular. This cannot be further from the truth, in my case, my best friend is a Mormon! If anything, "Anti-Mormon'ism'" would be more appropriate, but then again, Mormons have never been much for negativity, so why not just get rid of it in favor or more positive labels? Such as "pro-Christian" or "pro-truth"?

I came across this article in September of last year and happen to agree with it one hundred percent!

http://mrm.org/10-things

This article is hosted on one of the biggest "Anti-Mormon" sites on the internet, not a self-proclaimed title, but one inferred nonetheless. This article, written by an accused "Anti-Mormon" states "10 Things That Christians Can Learn From Mormons". I'll list the headers for you now:

10. Dedication to the heritage and the faith.

9. Overall morality.

8. Politics and religion mix.

7. Organization in its leadership.

6. Positive peer pressure towards missions.

5. Respecting Sundays as sacred.

4. Religious education for the youth.

3. Helping to supply the needs of the membership.

2. Preventing members from falling through the cracks.

1. The importance of families.

I agree with every one of these points, with the exception of 5 (I believe Saturday as the original Sabbath, yet hold that the main concern is that a believer take at least one day a week to rest, whatever day that may be). Number 7 is one in which I respect Mormons for because they have a foundation for their leadership and Church Organization. I'm currently in the middle of investigating the proper organization of the Church (Christian Church) and would just love it if, as Christians, we would take care to make sure we do things as close to the way God wants it done as possible.

As for the other headings, I completely agree, with a favorite of number 1. Families are central to every Mormon and, I'm currently reading a book called "Soul-Searching" where polls were taken of various faith groups and percentages of Children that adopt their parents faith. LDS was at the top of this and many other polls with over 70% of Mormon Children becoming Mormon themselves. That is incredible and truly inspirational. LDS is doing a lot of things incredibly right.

But again, I must put in a disclaimer: Just because the LDS Church is doing a lot of things right, that does not make them right. It does not make them the "One True Church." I believe the LDS Church is not of God, and because of this, I am sometimes called an "Anti-Mormon". I would ask that you refrain from using such terms, seeing as the first "Anti" between our two faiths were Joseph Smith and the God he met in the grove. Calling Christianity an abomination seems pretty "anti" to me ;)

So let's endeavor to look at the facts together. Lets all seek to gain a greater understanding of Mormonism, Traditional Christianity, and God.

I Find Your Lack Of Faith Disturbing...

2010-05-24T16:17:00.003-04:00

Faith is an integral part of life. Yes, I said life. Contrary to popular opinion, faith is not strictly relegated to the realms of religion and Star Wars. No matter what you believe, you will find that those beliefs are being upheld at their foundations by faith.

Before meeting Bryan and actually digging deep into my own beliefs, I thought I didn't have adequate faith. I would consider myself more of an existentialist than one of great faith, but the Bible tells us that all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed. (Matt 17:20) Through our studies, both Bryan and I are finding that faith isn't as mystical as some would have you believe. Let's break faith down into three separate groups:

Reasonable Faith - Faith based on evidence. People use this everyday. You see a chair, you go to sit down in it and after placing all of your weight on that chair, you are then supported by the chair and it prevents you from falling to the ground. Now the chair could be broken, but still look like an ordinary chair, when you go to sit in it you fall on the floor and this guy laughs at you. You exercise faith every time you sit down, even when you haven't put the chair through a series of tests to prove its reliability under pressure.

Blind Faith - Faith with no supportive evidence. This type of faith isn't my cup of tea, but that doesn't invalidate it as an effective mode of faith. Most of the time this faith should still be based on something for the individual, like a promise from God or something like that. Again, this area isn't my expertise so if any of you have input I'd love to hear it.

Unreasonable Faith - Faith in spite of evidence. This type of faith is un-biblical and oft-times dangerous. If you went to the Empire State building and a man told you that if you jump off at 5pm exactly that you would be able to fly instead of fall. This would require a tremendous amount of faith to do because you know that when you jump off a building you would fall. A way to switch this to reasonable faith would be to tell the man "After You!" Then when he plummets to the ground, you can be quite certain that no matter how much faith you would have tried to muster, you would be just as dead as that guy had you exercised it.

As a Christian, I am persuaded that what I believe in is the most reasonable thing a person could believe in. I believe that the Bible is a credible source of historic information and that the presentation of Christ is an accurate description of what really happened. I believe the Bible is inspired and contains prophecy and fulfilled prophecy. I believe that life cannot come from non-life without divine intervention. I believe that the universe, as well as time has a distinct beginning.

In believing Christianity to be true, I, by default believe all other religions to be false, Mormonism included. I base all of my beliefs on reasonable evidence and would love to go deeper with anyone who would raise an inquiry on any positions I've stated.

So, while faith is used all the time, make sure you're using it in the correct way. Believing in something just for the sake of believing in it doesn't make it true, people can be sincere in their faith, but they can also be sincerely wrong! Just try to make sure you're exercising faith in a healthy way. In a way that would protect you from groups like Scientology or some Jim Jones wannabe.

Hope you've enjoyed this post!

Live Long and Prosper!

We want your questions!

2010-05-21T03:24:00.005-04:00

If you have ANY questions about mormonism or christian-ism, comment on this post! We would love to answer them. If they are short answers, we will put them at the beginning of our weekly posts. But if it takes many many words to answer it, then we'll make it a post. ASK AWAY!

Send Questions to Paul and meself at Panos04@gmail.com and Bryguy16@gmail.com

The Plan of Happiness/Salvation! Woot!

2010-05-18T15:20:00.012-04:00

(That's a very beautiful picture, don't you think?)

Hello all! And welcome to another exciting episode of "Where's my pants!?" This has nothing to do with the blog, and there is no way that i can tie it in.

As you all know I am going to leave on a mission soon. Not a mission that is impossible, but just a lds mission. You (not you specifically) do something called 'mission papers'. After you (not you specifically) turn them in you (not you specifically) get your (not your specifically?) call in a couple weeks. Then you (not you specifically) leave after a couple of months! Its exciting! So yeah. I am almost done with my papers. So only a few months left of blogging/partying/home-ing/blogging. Don't cry. Please. Don't. So fasten your seat belts, because you are entering a very, veeeeery non-wild ride.

As you probably guessed, this weeks post is about the Plan of Happiness/Salvation. I have already put alot of words on this post. So basically, i am going to do the basics of each major part in the plan.

Premortal Life- Soooo, we were all there. Even Obama (sorry). I don't know exactly what we did up there... but i betcha it involved lemonade. One warm sunny day, God told us there would be a meeting. So we all gathered around in the conference room while God presented his plan. The plan i am sharing, even though i bet it was in more depth. God explained that he needed somebody to die for all of mankind. To pay for their sins. Jesus said that He would do it. Lucifer (santa) said he would take away our agency, so all mankind may be 'saved'. He also wanted God to give him all of his power and glory. God chose Jesus (of course), and because of that, santa was mad so he left God's presence along with 1/3 of the hosts of heaven.

Veil- When its our time to come to party-planet, we pass though a veil. Which makes us forget our pre-life, so it won't effect our earthly decisions.

Mortal Life- Right now! We are on earth to gain a body, become like our Heavenly Father, learn, grow and drink lemonade.

Death- Your (not your specifically?) spirit leaves your body after that guy pulls the trigger.

Spirit World- Everybody goes here after they die. You can still become like our Heavenly Father, learn, grow and drink lemonade up here. People who did not have the chance to hear/accept the gospel, will be taught here. There will be tons of missionary work to teach everybody about the gospel.

Judgment-Before this part you get resurrected. Then, you are judged! You will be judged on your works and desires, and will receive mercy if you used Christs Atonement to repent.

Finally, KINGDOM PLACEMENT!!!!!!!!!!- http://amormonandachristian.blogspot.com/2010/01/heaven-heavens.html (i've already done a post on that. So read up on it instead of hanging out with your friends)

Why I'm not a Mormon.

2010-05-10T11:06:00.005-04:00

Hey guys! I want to thank you all for continuing to check out our blog! Bryan and I are eternally grateful for you and each of us thank our respective Gods for you ;)

I just wanted to take this week's blog post to reflect on where I'm currently at in this journey.

I am not a Mormon. I drink Tea and Coffee. And Lemonade.

Bryan and I had an incredible candid conversation not too long ago. We were talking about the possible outcomes of this experiment. We both came to the same startling conclusion that we would both kind of like to be wrong. Not that we do think we're wrong or that we would like the other faith to be true... It's just that we both think it would be incredible to be that person who comes out of a cult, or false religion. To be a person who overcame the odds and were able to see that what they believed in was false... Even when we thought it was so right!

I thought it was amazing that both of us are ready and willing to admit we're wrong. It's not like we're believing what we believe just because we want to be right, we want TRUTH! Regardless of the cost! Regardless of what comes from this experiment, I am extremely content with the place that both Bryan and I arrived at. There is still more time for this to play out even more and I am looking forward to seeing exactly what that entails. But for the time being, I am a happy man. My best friend and I are pursuing truth through a world full of falsities coming from friend and foe alike.

Three reasons why I currently can't accept Mormonism as being true.

No reasonable evidence: I have no reason to believe that the BOM is more than a fictional book conceived by a very imaginative mind in that of Joseph Smith. I don't think I'm setting my standard for truth extremely high, I just expect that if the BOM is based on real events that actually happened, that archeology would be able to verify it to some degree. I don't think the story of the Prodigal Son is real just because the story is in the Bible... I understand that Jesus was relating a fictional story. The BOM could be a fictional story, but then why should I think the BOM is anything more than just that? What authority does the BOM have over me and my life?

Moroni Failed The Test: At least so far... I prayed to know if the BOM wasn't true back in September, All that's happened in my relation to Mormonism is that I think it's even more unlikely that the LDS faith is true. Both Bryan and I agreed ahead of time that I met each of the three Moroni qualifications.

Mormon Eternal Life is Unattainable: I can't do "all I can do". I can't meet the criteria to gain eternal life in Mormonism... I've tried it in Christianity and I find myself continually failing over and over again... I need the free gift of grace and the help of God to overcome my evil desires. I know that if I were to prescribe to a works based theology I would be completely ruined.

Like I said earlier, I don't know where the future will bring me, it's completely "possible" that I will end up being a Mormon. But as I continue to test my own faith and burn out the stubble that never really belonged there in the first place. I am growing more and more confident that Orthodox Christianity is the carrier of the One Truth. That Orthodox Christianity is the conduit chosen by The Way, The Truth, and The Life: Jesus Christ.

God Bless you all!

-Paul O

Pray to Know the Truth through the Holy Ghost.

2010-05-05T11:57:00.007-04:00

Holy Amber-Alert Batman, where has Bryan been!?

Here!

So ya, sorry about the month without posts. I've been busy/sick/working/school-ing. Paul has likewise been crazy busy. We are going to get back into our awesome schedule of one-post-a-week-for-our-awesome-checker-outers! I've been thinking the last few days about what topic I should do. Its the morning the post is due, and I just barely figured out what to do. With a little help from "Preach my Gospel" I know what I shall do. "Preach my Gospel" is a teaching guide that all missionaries use (I'll be one soon!)

Pray to Know the Truth through the Holy Ghost.

First article of faith: We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.

"The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us" (D+C 130, 21-22).

The Holy Ghost is the messenger and the testifier of God. So how do we get this great blessing in our life? In Baptism and by laying on of hands, we receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. If we are worthy we can have constant companionship. Even though only Mormons have the gift of the Holy Ghost, doesn't mean that others cant also receive revelation. Prayer is a good way to get communication from God. "God communicates with us through our very thoughts and feelings!" (Elder Bednar, Receiving, Recognizing, and Responding to the Promptings of the Holy Ghost).

Alrighty. So you now know a bit about the Holy Ghost. Now i am going to move on to Moroni 10: 3-5

3 Behold, I would exhort you that when ye shall read these things (Talking about the Book of Mormon), if it be wisdom in God that ye should read them, that ye would remember how merciful the Lord hath been unto the children of men, from the creation of Adam even down until the time that ye shall receive these things, and ponder it in your hearts.

4 And when ye shall receive these things, I would exhort you that ye would ask God, the Eternal Father, in the name of Christ, if these things are not true; and if ye shall ask with a sincere heart, with real intent, having faith in Christ, he will manifest the truth of it unto you, by the power of the Holy Ghost.

5 And by the power of the Holy Ghost ye may know the truth of all things.

So in order to learn truths, you need to: ponder it, pray to God in the name of Christ with a sincere heart, real intent, and with faith. Once you do that, you will receive the truth of all things. This isn't just a guide for the Book of Mormon, but a guide for our lives. If you want to know if a certain doctrine is true, do the steps, and you will receive and answer.

Well. I think that's enough for now. Prayer works. It has worked numerous times for me. God be with you!

One Truth?

2010-04-07T09:38:00.008-04:00

Hey guys, It's Paul again. Bryan is a bit under the weather, so prayers would be appreciated!

I figured I'd write a short post to try and keep a weekly flow going.

So, One truth: Can two conflicting "World views" both be correct? What do I mean by world-view? Basically, it's what you believe. You may believe in evolution, or that God created everything billions of years ago (Or Thousands of years ago). It could be that people are essentially good, or that they're essentially evil. That salvation lies in Jesus Christ, or that all roads of faith lead to heaven.

I'd like to take a second to plug a website if I could: www.pleaseconvinceme.com They've got articles, videos, and 146 podcasts to date! New podcasts come out weekly, usually on Mondays. Jim Wallace (The Host) was an atheist for the first 35 years of his life, then after taking an investigative look at Christianity (as well as Mormonism) decided that Christianity was the most reasonable world-view one could have. Jim is a cold-case homicide detective and uses much of the same style of investigation in his work at PCM.

Anyways, the reason I even mention them is because I find that Jim brings up almost every issue I have ever even thought of thinking of and more! In this weeks post, a Christian listener emailed him and told him that he was writing a paper on the topic of "Not One Religion has the Truth" He said that a religion can't be true if it points out the problems with every other religion...

Well Jim goes on to say that everyone holds an exclusive world-view, even those who think they're being fair to everyone by saying "All paths lead to heaven" those people are saying that the Christians, Mormons, and everyone who doesn't hold this view are wrong.

Christianity holds that Christ (Not the Mormon Christ) is the only way, Mormonism holds that Christ (Not the same as the Christian Christ) is the only way. So this e-mailer is basically saying he is right and every Mormon/Christian/Hindu/etc are wrong.

I admit, the "All religions are good" approach sounds like a decent thing to believe. However, if you actually take a little time to think about it you'll realize that it's just another exclusive world-view. Same with those who take the "There is no absolute truth" approach. Only that approach is self-defeating in that they just made an absolute statement, an "absolute truth" if you will.

Once you realize that every world-view is exclusive, then you should have an easier time understanding those who hold to exclusive world-view such as Mormons and Christians. It wouldn't be that much more for you yourself to accept your own exclusive nature.

Two conflicting world-views cannot both be correct. They may have a great majority in common, but the parts that differ can't both be correct. They can both be wrong, but not right. Thus is the purpose of Bryan and my going through our respective religions and comparing them. We could very well both be wrong. But we both cannot be right.

In the name of the One True God,
-Paul

Get a Mormon (Or Christian) Today!

2010-03-30T15:53:00.007-04:00

Aside from the life transforming introduction of Jesus Christ in my life, I would have to say the second most transforming moment was meeting Bryan. Before meeting Bryan, I had been a "Christian" (believed in God) my whole life, then a "Born-Again Christian" (Born-Again Christian) since the age of 17 (about four to five years prior to meeting Bryan).

Now in that time, I was learning a lot! I was at church as much as I could be, meeting many wonderful men and women of faith and actually took a Bible class in which I received my Associates degree in biblical studies. Even though I had gone through all of this, it didn't seem real to me, nothing was making it personal... I felt like I was reading a book and everything was making sense, but I couldn't see how it affected me in my everyday life...

Enter Bryan. All of a sudden I am introduced to Mormonism in all of it's glory! Now, I have to not just read about what I believe, but I have to "know" what I believe... In such a fashion that I can relate it to others, in this case, to Bryan. When Bryan and I began our discussion it quickly became apparent that even though we use a lot of the same words, our understanding of these words were completely different. Words like salvation, atonement, grace, and even Jesus Christ had different meanings for both of us... So I undertook the task of learning all I could about this religion I knew almost nothing about.

The result has been amazing, even though we haven't completed our goal of finding out which of us are right or wrong (even if we're both wrong) we know we're well on our way. Along the way, we have both gained an incredible personal knowledge of what we believe in as well as a reverent respect for God (Whoever that may be).

Meeting a Mormon has been such an instrumental help in my life that I would like to encourage you to do the same! If you are a Christian, I would challenge you to find a Mormon "PenPal" or something like that, if you don't know where to find one, Bryan would be more than happy to hook you up. Same goes for you Mormons who read our blog, contact me (Paul) and I will find someone who can help you understand the Christian faith.

Not all Mormons are as cool as Bryan, and most Christians are cooler than me, so your journey will not be exactly the same. We will try to match you up with the best people who are as interested in theology as you are. I encourage you to at least give it a try in love and see what God has for you to learn.

Mormons who would like a Christian email person contact Paul @ panos04@gmail.com

Christians who want their very own limited edition Mormon contact Bryan @ bryguy16@gmail.com

Please include your gender, age, and brief religious background in your email, thanks!

-Paul

Bryan's Talk!?

2010-03-17T13:08:00.005-04:00

"Hey! Things have been really crazy for my the last few weeks. My bro got home from his mission from Frankfurt Germany! So I never got around to doing my blog post. Soooooooo I am just going to post portions of a talk (I get in front of my ward (the church members in a small area) and basically give a lesson) that i gave a few weeks ago (except this is just a couple paragraphs because it's a blog and that's how we roll).

I met a Christian named Paul about two years ago, and ever since then we've been discussing our different religions. He has read the BOM, and the PoGP, but hasn't gotten his answer from the spirit that they are true. A few times he has said that he wishes miracles would happen in his church. He wonders why miracles don't happen like they did during Jesus' time. It's because their church doesn't have the priesthood.

A few months ago we planned to go to the other persons church. He went to our true church, and I went to his not-so-true church. Unfortunately nothing really happened when he went to our church. But my testimony was strengthened by going to his church. Always talking to him has tried my testimony, but the second I walked into his church I knew it wasn't true. The people there were nice and they were teaching true stuff out of the bible, but it was missing something. Right when I walked in, I just had a feeling that this church didn't have all the principles, and that I am 100% sure that I am in the right church. The priesthood gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost, and by that gift we are able to find the truths around us.

Now I will be talking about a blessing I received before I had a surgery. The end of June last year, I was hearing a weird popping noise in my chest. After two weeks I decided to go to the doctors. After an x-ray, they found out that my lung had collapsed. It is called a spontaneous pneumothorax. Nobody knows exactly why the lung collapses, it just happens.

Anyways, so I had to have a tube in my chest so they could drain the air and liquid that was in there. I only had to stay in the hospital for a day, but it was still one of the worst experiences of my life. Moving at all would cause me so much pain. A week later I went back to the doctors for my checkup. After an x-ray, they found out that my lung had collapsed again. Finding that out was the worst thing I could ever imagine. I could not think of going through what I already had again. Since my lung collapsed, I had to get a more extensive surgery. Instead of one day with mostly sleeping, I would have to be in the hospital for six days. Instead of the pain that the one tube brought me, I would have to have three tubes.

I won't get into any more details, but I will tell you what kept me sane. A few hours before the surgery my brother came to give me a blessing. I don't remember what he said, but I remember the change that took place in me. I felt happy, I knew that I would be fine. All of the depression I was feeling before, vanished. The blessing did not cure me instantly, even though I was hoping for that. But it was the greatest blessing I have received. I still had horrible pain over the 6 days, but I was not depressed. I wasn't exactly happy, but it was pretty close. Miracles don't have to have limbs instantly grow back, or sight to return to be miracles. My lung was still collapsed, and I still had to go through the surgery, but a miracle happened that day. I would will never forget it."

Alrighty! That zit! Mormon's rule! I will be interviewing my newly-returned-brother in the next few days to get another awesome blog post. Now you gotta wait, wear green and you'll be fine!

First Vision, Not Exactly 20/20?

2010-03-08T13:49:00.008-05:00

The official version of the First Vision can be found in your “Pearl Of Great Price”

In the interest of brevity (apologies, I was way too wound up for my last post, but we’re trying to keep a Monday weekly post schedule) I will refer you to the link for the full account and summarize it here.

Confused by the multiple “revival” campaigns happening near Joseph, and not knowing which to join, he decided to pray according to James 1:5 “If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.” So he went into the woods to pray to God and God actually shows up! Not just God, but Jesus too! Jesus proceeds to tell Smith not to join any of the churches, that they were all wrong, that their creeds were an abomination.

And there you have the pivotal birth of the LDS church in modern days. In this depiction, Smith seems to be a fairly reasonable fellow. I mean, who wouldn’t be confused with all the churches back then going through their individual revival eras. Each church proclaiming personal damnation for anyone who would join another… Smith knew enough to seek out authority, and in this I applaud him. On what authority did any of these churches speak, why did one have to be a Lutheran or a Baptist, Catholic, or protestant? Why would joining one warrant Hell from all of the others? It was a messy mess, I don’t blame Smith for condemning them all, I might have done the same, but that’s not what he’s claiming has happened. Smith is claiming that Jesus Christ Himself is condemning the other churches. This carries a bit more weight than a man who simply disagrees with the established groups. Now Smith has found the authority he was looking for.

Now if Smith had really experienced what he claimed, how are the regular lay-people supposed to know about it? If I had lived back then, it would have seemed like an addition to the problem rather than a solution. Instead of X churches threatening damnation for not joining them, I now have X+1…

Well the Mormon Church has an answer for my problem: Pray. All a person needs to do is pray according to James 1:5 and Moroni 10:4 and they will receive an answer to their questions. They will receive a testimony of the truthfulness of the Mormon Church and know with a surety that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God and that the Church of Jesus Christ has once again been established upon the Earth, on a foundation of Prophets and Apostles.

The only problem is that I did this. I took the “Moroni Challenge” I read the Book of Mormon and then knelt down and prayed. I prayed that if the BOM was true that I would know it. I prayed that regardless of what I believed that the spirit would come and testify of it. I knelt/laid there for half an hour; my heart and mind open to anything. I was so open, that when I felt hungry, I decided to go get something to eat. (ok so maybe that's not as spiritual as you'd like, but I wasn't about to miss something just because I thought it wasn't "holy" enough.) I drove to McDonalds and as I was pulling up to the window to pay I had a thought: What if this person leans out the window and tells me that the BOM is true and the LDS Church is God’s church? I laughed about the plausible scenario and decided that if that happened, I would be spending a lot of time at McDonalds that night ;).

But it never happened; I went home and called Bryan, told him that I did everything and didn’t receive an answer. He was confused and didn’t understand why I hadn’t received one… I told him that I didn’t see any indication of “when” I was supposed to receive this testimony and he agreed that the time factor wasn’t specified… He also agreed that it was lame that it didn’t happen right away :P

This was in September of '09... to this day I have not received a testimony for the truthfulness of the Mormon Church. On the contrary, as I learn more and more, the less likely I see Mormonism as being possibly true. But I still reserve the right to be wrong and if the Mormon Church is true, my prayer is as has always been, that I would learn it quickly.

Wow, how did a post on the first vision turn into this? :) Maybe it’s the spirit ;) I’ll keep it like this and wrap up with my prior thoughts on First Vision.

According to www.mrm.org there are at least nine different versions of the First Vision. The article raises many good questions for example:

Which version of the vision is verifiably valid, vacant of vagueness?
Did Joseph’s own handwritten account show him to be a committed student of the Bible reaching the apostasy conclusion on his own prior to the vision?
Was there an 1820 revival near Smith in the first place?
Did the First Vision even happen, or was it a way to establish authority after Mormonism got started?

All of these questions are addressed in the mrm.org article and is well worth the read.

As always, I welcome your comments, questions, and songs.

Respectfully yours,

-PaulO

Baptism!

2010-03-02T13:19:00.016-05:00

I don’t know how to start this topic as well as Paul did on the last one. Nothing can be as funny as that joke: “A-pasta-sea”. Do you get it? Get it? It’s funny because it sounds like apostasy. So instead of looking like a complete fool, I am going to go ahead and start.

Baptism: A Christian sacrament signifying spiritual cleansing and rebirth (Da link!)

"Therefore, repent all ye ends of the earth, and come unto me, and believe in my gospel, and be baptized in my name; for he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned; and signs shall follow them that believe in my name." (Ether 4:18)

Alrighty. Thanks for reading this week’s post!

Just kidding, I have more!

Most of the scriptures that I have about baptism can be translated in many different ways. In the example of Nicodemus:

"Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." (John 3:3-5) In this paragraph, Jesus is basically saying that spiritual baptism is more important than water baptism.

"Baptism by the spirit". What does that mean? When you are baptized by the spirit you receive the Holy Spirit. It means that you have received a testimony of Jesus Christ.

Is baptism required for salvation? "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned."(Mark 16: 16) The first part makes it sound like that it is required. But the second part only says that you will go to hell if you don't believe. So which is it? Mormons believe that baptism is required for salvation. Some Christians believe that it is necessary, but other Christians (like Paul) don't believe it is needed, but those others (like Paul) usually get baptized to show that they are truly Disciples of Christ.

Let’s all look at the story of the thief on the cross. Jesus said this when he being crucified. Luke 23:43 "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in paradise." Do you think a thief was baptized before he died? I don't think he was. This supports the Christian view that it really isn't needed for salvation.

But if Mormonism is right, and somebody dies before they get baptized, what happens to them? Well like i said before, in Mormonism, baptism is required for salvation. We do whats called Baptism for the Dead. Because they can't get baptized because of their lack of a body, somebody who has a body has to step in for them. We are being a proxy for them so they can have the necessary ordinances for salvation. More on baptisms for the dead in a future post.

So ya. Baptism = "required" for Mormons and some Christians. Baptism = "not required" for the other Christians, but they do it as an I-love-Jesus move. Tata!

“The Great(ly Speculated Apparently Disputed) Apostasy”

2010-02-23T11:02:00.002-05:00

What do you get when you dump a whole bunch of noodles into the Red Sea?

“A-Pasta-Sea”!

Ok lame joke, but people have been telling me that they enjoy Bryan's humor more than my dry “fact-filled” approach so I'm trying to compensate. That said, I must admit that trying to be Bryan is a job in and of itself... In trying to adapt his personality, I find myself exhibiting tourette-like symptoms except every outburst has something to do with Banana's or lemonade... But enough about me being him, we've got a very serious-yet-humor-injected post to bring to you tonight: The Great Apostasy!

First off let us term terms, label labels, and define definitions – after which we shall muse together momentarily...

Lds.org definition of apostasy:

When individuals or groups of people turn away from the principles of the gospel, they are in a state of apostasy. One example is the Great Apostasy, which occurred after the Savior established His Church. After the deaths of the Savior and His Apostles, men corrupted the principles of the gospel and made unauthorized changes in Church organization and priesthood ordinances. Because of this widespread apostasy, the Lord withdrew the authority of the priesthood from the earth. This apostasy lasted until Heavenly Father and His Beloved Son appeared to Joseph Smith in 1820 and initiated the restoration of the fullness of the gospel.

That's a pretty outrageous claim! Joseph Smith comes along in the 1800's and tells the world that Christianity died a long time ago, actually about the time the New Testament wraps up. This of course came as a surprise to “Christians” everywhere! Where did Smith get this information? If it was true surely there would be compelling evidence that an investigator could look at to gain a sure knowledge of it's truthfulness.... Or maybe not.

In the Ensign article “Early Signs of the Apostasy” Kent P Jackson seems fairly certain that all one needs to do is read the New Testament to become convinced of the apparent apostate condition of the church by it's conclusion. Jackson refers to 2 Thes 2:3 when he says “Paul taught that the day of Christ's coming would not take place until the 'falling away' and the revelation of the 'man of sin'” He goes on to say that once the apostles died, that the “man of sin” or Satan took Christ's place as “head over the church” Basically re-affirming 1 Ne 13:5-6 5 “And the angel said unto me: Behold the formation of a church which is most abominable above all other churches, which slayeth the saints of God, yea, and tortureth them and bindeth them down, and yoketh them with a yoke of iron, and bringeth them down into captivity.6 And it came to pass that I beheld this great and abominable church; and I saw the devil that he was the founder of it.”

Jackson goes even further in his article by saying that apostasy is clearly demonstrated in the New Testament simply because the doctrinal and behavioral problems became increasingly difficult to quell. In conjunction with this assessment, Jackson says that by the time 3 John was written, the heresies were so bad that the apostles could no longer prevent an apostasy from taking place.

The thing to realize here is that there isn’t much evidence for either side of this debate. On one hand we have evidence that shows a precedence for apostolic replacements and/or appointments. On the other hand the Bible doesn’t record every single event that happened during the churches beginning, so we can only assume this practice was continued or quelled.

Contrary to what Jackson would have you believe, the New Testament is packed with instances where the Apostles were admonishing the Churches to refrain from false doctrine and false Christs because they knew that the Church was meant to persevere! They weren't preparing for the church to fall into an apostate state, they were doing their best to ensure the proper doctrine be kept and preserved. Instead of seeing leaders preparing for a complete dying off of their faith, you see leaders warning people to not fall away, Paul instructs all believers to run with patience the race that is set before us!

When the LDS church references the “Falling Away” that must occur before Christ's return, it is not something that is foreign to Christianity. The only difference is in Christianity, the “Falling Away” is the Rapture. The Bible is clear that before Christ returns that the Church will be completely removed from the earth; that the Spirit of God will be taken from the Earth as well. Then the Anti-Christ will set himself up as the head of the One world religion for only 7 years, then the Glorious Return of Christ ushers in a millennium where the Devil is bound, then he comes back up to have his butt kicked and Christians get to spend eternity with their God and Savior!

Christians would largely agree with what is said in Bill McKeever's “Mormonism 101”. In his 6th Chapter McKeever writes the following: “If an apostle was killed or died of natural causes, a godly replacement to carry on the goal of his predecessor would have been picked, much like the system set up today in modern Mormonism. However, if the primitive church did not have this system in place, then the LDS Church leaders have no right to claim they represent the same church as that led by Christ and the biblical apostles.” he goes on to say “If, as the current LDS Church practices today, new apostles should be picked to replace outgoing disciples (through retirement or death) it seems strange that God would have allowed the leaders of His church in Palestine to be so ignorant as to stop replacing martyred apostles. Furthermore, Mormons are often told that God will never allow the leaders of the LDS church to guide their church into error. This is a teaching that is hammered home on a continual basis. If this is true of the modern Mormon Church, it must have also been true in the apostolic church. If the early church had a prophet like the modern LDS prophet guiding it, how could it ever fall into a state of apostasy? It would make sense that each successor would also be prohibited from allowing the church to fall into such a state,”

Mormonism holds that their current system is identical to that of the primitive apostolic church. If this were the case, McKeever’s points are to be taken very seriously. Mormons would say that the reason the primitive church fell into Apostasy was not due to a failure on the Churches part, but rather a realization of the will of God.

Personally, and this is just my own opinion, but I believe there is more evidence of an Apostasy in the early days of Mormonism that there is for the primitive church. After Joseph Smith was murdered in 1844, there were multiple people who claimed divine appointment to succeed him as prophet. The RLDS church claims to be the true church as Joseph Smiths own son was the prophet that continued that sect. For more information on that look up "Succession Crisis of 1844".

The Apostasy is a foundational doctrine of the LDS faith and central to it’s entire existence. In the same way, lack of apostasy is central to Christian theology. My recommendations would be to study both sides and see if you can find out for yourself what really happened. Let’s leave this post with a quote from the “History of the Church” - “Nothing less than a complete apostasy from the Christian religion would warrant the establishment of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

The Fall, The Winter, And The Other One.

2010-02-18T21:47:00.006-05:00

Help! I've fallen and I can't get up! jk I can. But you can help anyways.

The epicness of all that is Christianity and all that is Mormonism clash in a brilliant explosion of direct contrast in one area in particular. We still have no idea what area that is, so we're going to look at the area of the fall of man and the garden stuff. (Which is only slightly less EXPLOSIVE).

Let's get started eh? Eh.

What us Mormon's believe:

Adam and Eve were given two commandments, do not partake of the fruit (Gen 2:16-17), and to multiply and replenish the earth (Gen 1:28). The only commandment that applied to them was not to partake of the fruit. They could have stayed in the garden forever and ever and ever. The other commandment didn't apply to them because they were in a state of innocence, and they could not understand how to procreate.

To carry out Gods plan of happiness, Adam and Eve had to fall from their innocence. Even though they were in a fallen state, the fall was a blessing in disguise.

"Properly understood, it becomes apparent that the fall of Adam is one of the greatest blessings ever given of God to mankind. It is the way and the means whereby the spirit children of the Father go forth from their celestial home to gain mortal and then immortal bodies. And it provides the way for the experiences, tests, and trials that prepare the faithful for eternal life." - Bruce McConkie

By becoming mortals they could now feel joy and unhappiness. All of us could "have a body and come to earth to gain experience in choosing between good and evil" (Preparing for Exaltation).

The whole point of mortal life, is to get a body and to learn how to become like God. The Fall was a part of God's plan, without it we could never be happy. "And it must needs be that the devil should tempt children of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves; for if they never should have bitter they could not know the sweet" (Doctrine and Covenants 29:39)

"Adam fell that men might be; and men are, that they might have joy". (11 Nephi 2:25)

What them Christian's believe:

The state of grace and perfection that Adam and Eve were in, would have been a perfect place to have perfect children, perfectly. The garden of Eden was a perfect place to multiply and replenish the earth with their perfectly perfect children.

According to the Bible, the Fall was nothing but a tragedy because sin had entered the world (Romans 5:14, 1 Cor 15:22) . The Bible teaches that sin is never necessary or a good thing (Except for Ex 16:1 and 17:1). Gods perfect plan didn't necessitate the fall, but because of Santa everybody was in a doomed state.

Genesis 3:16, "Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee." It says multiply, which sounds like Eve was able to bear children before the Fall.

Now on two points of contrast and that explosive stuff I mentioned earlier...

Where us agree

Both understand it was necessary for God to create a place where sin was available, a choice. Otherwise there would have been no free will... every option would be the right one, and everyone would love God because there was no other choice.

Also, both agree that there were no children born before the partaking of the forbidden fruit, both sides speculate as to how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden, but both understand that no Children could have existed prior to the fall seeing as they wouldn't have been affected by the curses or had the knowledge of good and evil.

Finally, both agree that the forbidden fruit was not an apple, so be not afraid of apples... whole bunches of apples...

Where them differ

Mormons believe that Adam transgressed when he ate the forbidden fruit, but did not sin. "This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin in the strict sense, for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Joseph F. Smith, p. 115) "The fall of man came as a blessing in disguise,... I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin.... It is not always a sin to transgress the law.." (Joseph F. Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 114)

However Christians disagree based on the Biblical definition of sin: 1 John 3:4 "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law." Based on this as well as Rom 5:14 and 1 Cor 15:22

Mormons believe that Adam and Eve couldn't procreate in their state of innocence, while Christians would argue that procreation would not have harmed that innocence, in the same way as having marital intercourse is not only innocent, but commanded by a Holy God.

Conclusionary Paragraphical Summarizationable

So there you have it. The exposivity is mind numbing. And so are OtterPops. Feel free to ask tons of question and bookmark us and tell all your friends to follow us and pay us money? No pressure either way... :D

-Bryan

Polygamy

2010-01-19T21:01:00.003-05:00

Mormon Polygamous Family pre 1890.

One of the most identifiable traits of Mormonism is polygamy. It’s a hot topic in today’s culture and the history of the LDS church is full of it. From it’s founder to this very day, Mormons have embraced Polygamy as a vital part of ones progression to exaltation. While it’s true that the LDS church officially banned the practice in 1890 through a manifesto written by then prophet Wilford Woodruff, polygamy is still very much a part of every Mormon’s life.

Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, had at least 20 wives. Some say even up to 33. But here is a list provided by mrm.org

1. Louisa Beaman Apr 5, 1841
2. Zina Diantha Huntington Oct 27, 1841
3. Prescendia Lathrop Huntington Dec 11, 1841
4. Desdemona W. Fullmer 1842
5. Mary Elizabeth Rollins (Lightner) Jan 17, 1842
6. Patty Bartlett (Sessions) Mar 9, 1842
7. Marinda Nancy Johnson (Hyde) Apr 1842
8. Eliza Roxcy Snow Jun 29, 1842
9. Sarah Ann Whitney Jul 27, 1842
10. Martha McBride (Knight) Aug [3] 1842
11. Almera Woodard Johnson Apr 1843
12. Ruth D. Vose (Sayers) Feb 1843
13. Eliza Partridge Mar 8, 1843
14. Helen Mar Kimball May 1843
15. Lucy Walker May 1, 1843
16. Emily Partridge May 11, 1843
17. Sarah Lawrence May 11, 1843
18. Rhoda Richards Jun 12, 1843
19. Melissa Lott Sep 20, 1843
20. Fanny Young (Murray) Nov 2, 1843

So why Polygamy? Well on July 12, 1843 Joseph Smith gave D&C 132:58–66, (Laws governing the plurality of wives are set forth) as a revelation from God. The section itself states that this revelation had been known since 1831.

Brigham Young, LDS’s 2nd prophet said the following: “Now if any of you will deny the plurality of wives, and continue to do so, I promise that you will be damned; and I will go still further and say, take this revelation, or any other revelation that the Lord has given, and deny it in your feelings, and I promise that you will be damned.”

But since 1890, polygamy has been banned by the church, any member who is caught practicing the plurality of wives is excommunicated.

However, we’ve all heard about Mormons who still practice polygamy today, who are they? They are from any number of splinter groups primarily from the FLDS, or Fundamental Latter Day Saints. These are the people who were raided in Texas and FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs was taken to prison. The FLDS believe that the LDS Church gave in to political pressure and that the 1890 manifesto was not of God, but rather in fear of being destroyed by the US Government. The manifesto did come at an incredibly convenient time, seeing as the United States would not allow Utah statehood until the issue of polygamy had been taken care of. The LDS believe that the manifesto is of God and that practicing polygamy today is against the law of God. LDS think the FLDS is apostate, and vice versa.

Also interesting to note would be Wilford Woodruff view on Polygamy before he wrote the 1890 manifesto: "If we were to do away with polygamy, it would only be one feather in the bird, one ordinance in the Church and kingdom. Do away with that, then we must do away with prophets and Apostles, with revelation and the gifts and graces of the Gospel, and finally give up our religion altogether and turn sectarians and do as the world does, then all would be right. We just can't do that, for God has commanded us to build up His kingdom and to bear our testimony to the nations of the earth, and we are going to do it, come life or come death. He has told us to do thus, and we shall obey Him in days to come as we have in days past" (JOD 13:165 - p.166).

Even though faithful LDS agree that polygamy shouldn’t be practiced during this lifetime, they still believe it is an essential part of their personal progression. In the case where a man loses his wife while on earth, if he is sealed to another woman they will both be his wives in the next estate. If a Mormon does not have the opportunity to partake of plural marriage while alive, they believe they will be given the opportunity after death.

LDS claim that polygamy has always been a part of God’s plan and use the Old Testament patriarchs as their example. While it is true that our forefathers did practice polygamy, there is nothing in the Bible that shows God doing anything more than allowing it. God never encouraged plural wives or concubines, and the Bible as well as the Book of Mormon are actually monogamous in nature! In the Book of Mormon Jacob 2:27: says "Wherefore, my brethren, hear me, and hearken to the word of the Lord: For there shall not any man among you have save it be one wife; and concubines he shall have none."

The issue I have with this is that if God really instituted the practice of Polygamy, I wouldn’t let the United States bully me into disobeying God’s law. Although faithful LDS will hold that God really did suspend the practice, I think they timing was too convenient for the church. This is only personal opinion though and open to individual decisions.

The Mormon people are more than just polygamy, it is sad that most people stop at polygamy and write them off. To me polygamy doesn’t seem like the worst thing the LDS church believes in, but that’s because I believe the LDS isn’t the true church. Everyone can’t learn everything about everything, there just isn’t enough time. But since you’re reading this, you should know that polygamy is just a small part of the LDS, not it’s defining doctrine.

Heaven? Heavens?

2010-01-12T21:26:00.002-05:00

Crackling noise as radio transmission begins with a man in a monotone voice

Hello, and welcome to another episode of The Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy. Arthur Dent a man whose planet has just been blown up.... Just kidding.

This next post will be focusing on Heaven!

Starting off we will be describing what the Mormon's believe about heaven, and what the Christians believe about heaven.

Mormons: We believe that there are three separate kingdoms in heaven, the Celestial the Terrestrial and the Telestial.

The highest degree of glory is the Celestial. This is the kingdom where God and Christ live. It is also the kingdom where families can live with their earthly families and produce spirit children. In this kingdom you will receive a fullness of happiness, and receive exaltation (becoming a God) To enter into this kingdom you will need to have faith in Christ, be baptized and do all the necessary ordinances in the temple. Children who die before the age of accountability (usually 8) will also be in this kingdom.

The next highest is the Terrestrial. All of the beings from the Celestial kingdom (including Christ and God) will be able to visit this kingdom. The people who will be in this kingdom would have gotten the gospel on earth, rejected it, and then accepted it again after death. This is a place for Mormon's and Non-Mormons who didn't obey the commandments as best they could.

The lowest kingdom, Telestial, is still a heaven, but it is not as grand as the Terrestrial and Celestial. It will still be an awesome place. Doctrine & Covenants 76:89, “the glory of the Telestial… surpasses all understanding.” Only the Holy Ghost is able to go into that kingdom, God and Christ will not be there. The people in this kingdom will be the ones who reject the gospel and all the ordinances, in this life and in the life after death. Because they did not accept Christ, they would have to suffer for their own sins before they are resurrected to this kingdom.

Outer Darkness: This is where Satan/Santa is. Everybody who did not agree with God's plan, and instead followed Satan, is here. Only a few of us will go to outer darkness. Because you would have to deny the Holy Ghost. In order to do this a person must first gain a sure knowledge of the truthfulness of the gospel, and then deny it. It's like someone saying that there is no sun at noon on a clear day.

A biblical scripture that supports this is found in 2 Corinthians 12:2. " I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven"
Christians believe that Paul is referring to an atmospheric heaven, or sky, rather than the dwelling place of God.

Christianity: There is not a solid agreement on what Heaven is, but the more popular one is that Heaven will eventually be on this earth.

After Christians die they go to an intermediary place called Paradise, (Luke 23:43) it is here Christians wait until Jesus makes His second appearance. Once the whole story plays out, a new Earth will be created, it will be here where people will reign with God forever in their new glorified bodies. (Matt 25:34)

Christians believe in one heaven, but that people will receive different amounts of Glory (rewards) based on their works during their lifetime. (1 Cor 3:8) Heaven, to Christians, is “In the presence of God”.

Who gets in? Only those who are righteous may enter heaven. (Gal 5:21, Eph 5:5, Rev 22:15) Who is righteous? No one. (Rom 3:10) The only way to the Father is through Jesus Christ. (John 14:6) Christians are saved by grace though faith in Jesus Christ. So all who are saved will eventually reign with God for eternity on the New Earth. (Matt 25:34) Serving Him forever. (Rev 22:3)

Alrighty. As you can probably tell, both of these beliefs are different. Mormons believe that you will be in a kingdom according to your faith and works, and with people like you around you. Christians believe that there is one heaven and everybody who is saved will go there. If you were more faithful than others, you would receive more rewards then they would.

Christian Trinity Vs. Mormon Godhead

2010-01-04T20:09:00.006-05:00

When comparing the Trinity against the Godhead, more similarities emerged than I had originally anticipated. I must also admit that I was particularly sketchy on the concept of Trinity myself. Being a math person, I couldn't come to terms with 1+1+1=1. It just wouldn't add up in my mind. Often times when I would approach the topic in conversation with a fellow Christian, the response would go along the lines of “God's ways are higher” and “Who are we to comprehend God”. While I do accept that there will be things I may never understand, I don't believe that is a free ticket to just stop trying. Doesn't the Bible say something about people who are willingly ignorant? Hmmm.

So first off, let's define terms.

Christian Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as three persons in one Godhead.

Mormon Godhead: The Church's first article of faith states, "We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost." These three beings make up the Godhead. They preside over this world and all other creations of our Father in Heaven.

That looks pretty much Identical. So how are they different? I'm glad you asked!

The difference lies in the defining of the actual members. You see, in Orthodox Christianity, we believe the Father, Son and Holy Spirit to be co-equal, as well as co-eternal. Christians believe that there was never a time where there didn't exist all three persons of the Godhead. Neither do they believe that one created the other. This is the fundamental difference between the Trinity and the Godhead. Not so much in it's structure, but in it's members.

In Mormonism, you are taught that God was not always God. God the Father was actually just a regular man on a planet much like our own. After this man followed all of the commands and ordinances required of him by his God, he was able to become “exalted” into who we now know as Father God, or as The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints refers to as “Heavenly Father”. Prior to creating Earth, Heavenly Father begat children with Heavenly Mother, the first child being Jesus. Heavenly Father also born the Holy Spirit, Lucifer, and everyone whose ever lived, is living, or ever will live.

Already you can see where the major differences are. Christianity claims that the trinity has always existed, while Mormonism holds that the Father achieved exaltation and that the Holy Spirit and Jesus are spirit children of Him. Both can't be right, but now that we know how they're different, we need to figure out which one is right, if one is right.

So why do Mormons believe that the Son and Holy Spirit were created? Why do they believe there was a time where Father was not Father? This seems to go against the Bible! You're completely right, however The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints claims that the Bible is only reliable as long as it's properly translated. They also ascertain that there are many “plain and precious things taken away from the book” book meaning Bible. The LDS church believes that God has proved them with additional revelations through their founding prophet Joseph Smith, in the forms of the Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and the Doctrine & Covenants, along with a living prophet who today is President Thomas S. Monson.

In a later blog we go into more detail on just how different the Mormon and Christian concepts of God are. On the surface, they can appear quite similar, only when you dig deeper can you see just how polarizing the views are. In Matthew 24:24 we read "For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible." The question is, which Christ is the true Christ? Is it the traditional Christ of Orthodox Christianity, handed down through time within the pages of the Bible? Or was the Original Christ lost along the way, having now been restored by God through Joseph Smith?

We shall see...

Are You Ready To Rumble?

2010-01-02T14:45:00.004-05:00

Hello! My name is Bryan also known as Amulon. If you know who Amulon (he was an evil guy in the Book of Mormon) is, you are probably asking "Why does he want to represent a wicked priest?" I picked Amulon because 1. If there were any Mormon's playing the same time I was, they would recognize me as one of them. 2. I thought it was an awesome name.

I was born into the Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints. I've been a member all my life. Like most members who are born in the church, I basically went to church because my parents would bribe me with lemonade (not really). Probably around ten years old I started to enjoy going to church, and probably around twelve I went to church on my own accord (and yet, I still received lemonade).

I've never done a deep study on any religion, even the religion I was currently in. I was just learning the basics in church. My first outside-of-church-studying-actually-learning-more-than-the-basics for the gospel started when I finished the Book of Mormon, and received a testimony that it was a true book of God. Once I finished that, I started to read more of the Standard Works. Not until I met this weirdo named Paul, did I start doing a deep study of my religion. Now, because of him, I know so much more about my religion and the Christian religion (I believe that Mormon are Christians. Because we believe in Christ. But Paul has a different definition of Christian, but I generally use his definition. So when I say Christian, I am referring to the church Paul is in.)

The first conversations we ever had were usually about gaming, and other non-important stuff. Now our conversations are filled with so much religious cake, that my brain hurts just thinking about that much sugar. Paul and I grown so much in our religions, and our friendship has never been stronger. He has changed my life and has made me a better person. I hope that we will both find the truth, and by making this blog, helping you find the truth as well.

Disclaimer

2010-01-02T10:15:00.003-05:00

Here are some clarifications as to the purpose and scope of this blog:

The purpose of this site is to use the experience gained through our investigation to give additional insight to others. Through reading the material presented we hope you will gain a new perspective into our world. We pray that through our conversations you might be aided in your own search for truth.

We confess that not all Christians agree on every area of doctrine. In the same way, Mormons are not cookie-cutter-carbon-copies of one another. In light of this, please understand that Paul and Bryan are not attempting to speak for everyone else of their faith, but instead, are speaking out of their own understanding of their personal beliefs.

You should not trust anything on this site as being infallible, but instead, use critical analysis and research the topics discussed here for yourselves. We will do our best to provide source material, but seeing as many of these conversations have been collected from past discussions, errors may come up. Please report any false information that is presented and we will do our best to correct it.

In everything said and done on this blog, both Paul and Bryan reserve the right to be wrong. The entire goal of these investigations is that, someday, one or both of them will come to the realization that they have believed in a false faith, leading them to the "One Truth". While the beliefs shared on this site hold true for the person at the time they wrote it, beliefs can change as new information is presented.

We’re excited to have you join us in this adventure and pray that the Truth will be found, and through it, we will be set free. Amen!

Let The Games Begin!

2009-12-29T20:48:00.001-05:00

Hi, my name is Paul, or as the computer world knows me, Panos.

About 3 years ago, I was playing a game called Team Fortress 2, when all of the 24 players left the server except for me and a player named "Amulon", later to be known as Bryan. We friended each-other in the game and soon joined a clan together and became partners in creating our own gaming group of warriors. As we became better friends we each realized the other person wasn't your everyday guy... something was different, neither of us swore or used crude humor, and we were both very honorable people. That's when we found out that we're both heavily involved in our faiths. Mine being Orthodox Christianity, and his being The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.

I had no idea what Mormonism was at the time, I "knew" Jehovah's Witnesses were bad and that Mormons might be something like that, but this Mormon was grade "A" material! I figured he's just a Christian, like me! I was happy that we would both be going to heaven someday.

After a while I learned more about the LDS church and came to the conclusion that we did not belong to the same church after all... That we believe in two different Gods, two different Jesus' and that our two faiths could never be reconciled... Our only option was to investigate both faiths and see if we could find out which one, if not both, was false.

So here we are, We've spent about a year going through intensive investigation on each of our respective faiths and decided we'd post them on the web just in case our discussions proved to be helpful in any way for those out there who may run into a similar (completely random) situation.

Today Bryan and I are great friends and although we joke around quite a bit, we both have incredible respect for the other person and their faith. We are both trying to find the truth, for God is truth and the truth will set us free. Please keep us in your prayers and any comments are welcome.

Let the games begin! W007!

-PaulO

A Mormon And A Christian

Answers!!? uuh huh. :)

And I'm A Mormon.

Happy Birthday Michelle!!!

World[s] Without End?

Baptism. Taufe. טבילה 洗禮 Covenants

Anti-Mormon Literature.

1 Year Anniversary! :D

Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas

Atheism vs. Theism

Where was the Atonement again?

The Chosen One/ Faith: Myth or Legend?

Good or Evil - is there a difference?

Deception

Outer Darkness, Spirit Prison and Hell. Are they Different?

Remember Remember the 25th of December?

Misconstrued Much?

Happy Halloween Almost!

How Are You Doing!?!

Post from Elder Meyer

Knowing.

The Initiate Speaketh?

When I grow up, I wanna be a gladiator!

Restoration of... A Car.

Because my mom told me.....

"Just Michelle It"

Local High School Dropouts Cut In Half

Good bye!

...Till We Meet Again.

Hello!

Rockstar

Hi.

Greetings!

Ch-Ch-Ch-Ch-Changes!

Mission Possible?

A post from C-eh, N-eh, D-eh

Happy Birthday Bryan!

Auntie Em! Anti-M?

10. Dedication to the heritage and the faith.

9. Overall morality.

8. Politics and religion mix.

7. Organization in its leadership.

6. Positive peer pressure towards missions.

5. Respecting Sundays as sacred.

4. Religious education for the youth.

3. Helping to supply the needs of the membership.

2. Preventing members from falling through the cracks.

1. The importance of families.

I Find Your Lack Of Faith Disturbing...

We want your questions!

The Plan of Happiness/Salvation! Woot!

Why I'm not a Mormon.

Pray to Know the Truth through the Holy Ghost.

One Truth?

Get a Mormon (Or Christian) Today!

Bryan's Talk!?

First Vision, Not Exactly 20/20?

Baptism!

“The Great(ly Speculated Apparently Disputed) Apostasy”

The Fall, The Winter, And The Other One.

Polygamy

Heaven? Heavens?

Christian Trinity Vs. Mormon Godhead

Are You Ready To Rumble?

**Disclaimer**

Let The Games Begin!

Disclaimer