A Mormon And A Christian
A Mormon and a Christian accidentally became best buds... This is the story of their investigation into both faiths.
Monday, April 25, 2011
Answers!!? uuh huh. :)
So this will be news to even Paul. He's the one who asked me to do this. I did a very long time ago and didn't tell him about it. :) I wanted him to see this blog first.
I surprisingly had never read the entire Book of Mormon on my own. I have read it a lot, but always reading with somebody else like my mom or whole family. I hadn't ever really thought about the fact that I hadn't read it on my own soo I decided to. :) It took me about a year because I usually only read one chapter a day. I finished around February sometime. I was really happy and excited that I had finished reading the Book of Mormon completely on my own so I told Paul that I finished and he asked if I could do Moroni's promise. Moroni 10:3-6 I told him that I had prayed about the truthfulness of the church a long time ago and already had my answer, but he wanted me to do it again. I said alright I'd do it, but it would probably take a little while because Heavenly Father doesn't always answer right when you ask. He never really asked me about it again.
Answers come in all different forms. The answer I received was the given to me in a way that I definitely knew it was my answer, but I'd never been answered that way before. I actually got my answer fairly quick. I prayed about it almost every night. I read the scriptures every day as we are commanded to do and I usually read right before going to bed and I'm usually pretty tired while reading. One Sunday I was in church and had the thought that I should read that afternoon because I wouldn't be so tired and I could read a lot more than just one chapter. Later that day, a while after church, I was in my room reading the Book of Mormon (I started reading it again almost right after finishing it) and I honestly don't even remember where I was reading, but I suddenly got this HUGE feeling of love for the Book of Mormon. Not just like an "oh this is a cool book..." No. Really. This overwhelming, overpowering love for it to the point that it almost brought me to tears. And I rarely cry about things like that. It took me by surprise so I just sat on my bed kind of stunned thinking... whoa. Where did that come from? I realized right then that that was my answer. It was really cool. :) And I am really glad Paul asked me to pray about the truthfulness of the book because now I will remember that specific love I have for the Book of Mormon. Answers don't always come that soon though. Heavenly Father answers prayers and questions when it's the right time for you. Sometimes prayers don't get answered for a long time and people think that either Heavenly Father doesn't care about them, or that what they're asking isn't true or doesn't matter. False! Heavenly Father does care, he will answer you're prayer and not just leave you hanging and anything that truely matters to you matters to the Lord. I believe that God gives answers when we're prepared for them. If we ask something not really believing that we will be answered then His answer would probably go unnoticed. He waits for when we truely put faith into our prayers and are prepared to accept what his answer is. :)
The End. I have to go to work now. I had an hour to kill at school before work started and I thought this would be a good use of my time. Don't you agree?
| Reactions: |
Friday, April 1, 2011
And I'm A Mormon.
After years of study I have finally arrived at a place where I can say with assurance that The Church Of Jesus Christ Of Latter Day Saints is the One True Church.
I have received a testimony in my spirit that his church is true. I have finally learned that I cannot rely on my logic or the 'facts' that I may 'think' to be true. Instead, I am now allowing God to directly teach me His truth, which is not limited to reality or our fallen version of truth.
Let it be known that on April 1st, 2011, that I have finally seen True truth and will follow it for the rest of my days.
Oh and by the way: This April Fool's Day post is completely fictitious.
I have received a testimony in my spirit that his church is true. I have finally learned that I cannot rely on my logic or the 'facts' that I may 'think' to be true. Instead, I am now allowing God to directly teach me His truth, which is not limited to reality or our fallen version of truth.
Let it be known that on April 1st, 2011, that I have finally seen True truth and will follow it for the rest of my days.
Oh and by the way: This April Fool's Day post is completely fictitious.
| Reactions: |
Thursday, March 17, 2011
Happy Birthday Michelle!!!
Happy 20th birthday Michelle!! :D Blogging with you has been an incredible pleasure! ENJOY YOUR CAKE?!
| Reactions: |
Tuesday, February 1, 2011
World[s] Without End?
Being convinced of something is not a decision that one can make. It is something that happens as your mind takes in information. You can decide whether or not the information being taken in is credible, but the process of being convinced happens on its own with little to no effort.
It is widely believed that the universe and time has a beginning, well this is exactly what the Bible teaches, even before Science could back it up. However, many scientists have suggested that the universe has "always" existed. Even before the Big Bang, there were materials in a super compact form till the Big Bang took place. Something that was and still is a central truth that lends itself to my being convinced of a theistic world-view, is the problem of "Infinite Regression":
So there is your first dilemma, you can not get far enough back to even stop the tape to begin playing it forward. But for the sake of logic, lets grant that you can press play once you "reach" the beginning of an infinite past. Your second problem is that you will never read the "present", even if you were to fast forward at as large of intervals of your liking, you would never be able to cross an infinite period of time. In other words, you and I would never be able to make it to what we call today if an infinite amount of time had to be crossed to get here.
Going even further, granting the universe an attribute of an infinite past, we are in a way "deifying" the universe. An infinite past is not something that is naturally tenable, therefore, on its own, having super-natural attributes, the universe always existing does not do anything for those arguing for a secular world-view.
So the only way I can see a secular world-view being remotely sustainable would be for everything to come from nothing, nowhere, never. Hmmm it seems my best attempt at defending secularism is precluded by logic itself. Oh well, I tried. ;)
In yet another effort to offer secular basis for life, the theory of "Multiverse" comes into play. This theory does not attempt to solve the problem of infinite regress, but does attempt to solve to problem of "Fine Tuning" which states:
What does any of this have to do with Mormonism? Thank you for asking, you win!
Mormonism actually includes forms of both secular theories we just discussed. Like I said earlier, I have no logical problem with the multiverse theory, but I still can not see how a person can rationally hold to a world-view that fosters an infinite regression.
LDS theology holds that Earth is not the only world that is inhabited with people by our Father God. In fact The term used is "Worlds without end". This is a type of Multiverse, yet not necessarily removed by separate universes, yet if there are other worlds with people who the Jesus that died on Earth died for, it would eventually be possible for this to be evidentially supported (In the event we find such worlds).
Mormonism also holds that God the Father was actually a man on a world much like ours, with a God to Him as He is to us. Many Mormons believe that this is not the only cycle that has occurred in history. Many hold that Each God has His own God. This is one of the more perfect examples of infinite regression I have come across.
In talking with Bryan about this in the past, he admitted that this was one of the biggest things he did not understand and had a hard time believing. I was and still am impressed with his honesty and in no way am trying to prey on his weakness by posting this. In fact I purposely waited about a year to post on this subject specifically because it was one of his weaker areas of faith.
I am in no way trying to suggest that a person needs to "know everything" in order to hold certain beliefs. Neither am I trying to say that all beliefs must be rational. All I am trying to do is to get us to take a closer look at exactly what it is we believe. What we are sub-consciously convinced of. And for us to decide whether or not we are ok with that.
Apologies for the long post, but it does serve as a gauge showing how much this matters to me.
God Bless you all!
It is widely believed that the universe and time has a beginning, well this is exactly what the Bible teaches, even before Science could back it up. However, many scientists have suggested that the universe has "always" existed. Even before the Big Bang, there were materials in a super compact form till the Big Bang took place. Something that was and still is a central truth that lends itself to my being convinced of a theistic world-view, is the problem of "Infinite Regression":
An infinite regress in a series of propositions arises if the truth of proposition P1 requires the support of proposition P2, the truth of proposition P2 requires the support of proposition P3, ... , and the truth of proposition Pn-1 requires the support of proposition Pn and n approaches infinity.The way I have heard it best explained is to think of the history of everything as a VHS (A VHS is a primitive form of video storage and presentation which were utilized before people invented useful things). You get the VHS from a VHS rental store and when you get home to watch it you find that whoever rented it prior to you did not rewind it. You proceed to rewind the tape to get to the "beginning" but the tape just keeps rewinding. In fact, you decide to leave the tape to rewind for 20 years and it still has not stopped. Let it go another [infinite number] of years and it still will never stop rewinding.
So there is your first dilemma, you can not get far enough back to even stop the tape to begin playing it forward. But for the sake of logic, lets grant that you can press play once you "reach" the beginning of an infinite past. Your second problem is that you will never read the "present", even if you were to fast forward at as large of intervals of your liking, you would never be able to cross an infinite period of time. In other words, you and I would never be able to make it to what we call today if an infinite amount of time had to be crossed to get here.
Going even further, granting the universe an attribute of an infinite past, we are in a way "deifying" the universe. An infinite past is not something that is naturally tenable, therefore, on its own, having super-natural attributes, the universe always existing does not do anything for those arguing for a secular world-view.
So the only way I can see a secular world-view being remotely sustainable would be for everything to come from nothing, nowhere, never. Hmmm it seems my best attempt at defending secularism is precluded by logic itself. Oh well, I tried. ;)
In yet another effort to offer secular basis for life, the theory of "Multiverse" comes into play. This theory does not attempt to solve the problem of infinite regress, but does attempt to solve to problem of "Fine Tuning" which states:
The fine-tuned Universe is the idea that the conditions that allow life in the Universe can only occur when certain universal fundamental physical constants lie within a very narrow range, so that if any of several fundamental constants were only slightly different the universe would be unlikely to be conducive to the establishment and development of matter, astronomical structures, elemental diversity, or life as it is presently understood.Starting after the problem of when, where, and what created everything, the multiverse makes it easier to believe that life can arise by chance, however statistically improbable it might be, due to the infinite number of universes that came into being at the beginning. This makes sense to me, logically, but I might remind you that the "Multiverse" is as evidentially sustainable as God is. Meaning that both require faith, which strikes odd to me that a secularist would be ok with that.
What does any of this have to do with Mormonism? Thank you for asking, you win!
Mormonism actually includes forms of both secular theories we just discussed. Like I said earlier, I have no logical problem with the multiverse theory, but I still can not see how a person can rationally hold to a world-view that fosters an infinite regression.
LDS theology holds that Earth is not the only world that is inhabited with people by our Father God. In fact The term used is "Worlds without end". This is a type of Multiverse, yet not necessarily removed by separate universes, yet if there are other worlds with people who the Jesus that died on Earth died for, it would eventually be possible for this to be evidentially supported (In the event we find such worlds).
Mormonism also holds that God the Father was actually a man on a world much like ours, with a God to Him as He is to us. Many Mormons believe that this is not the only cycle that has occurred in history. Many hold that Each God has His own God. This is one of the more perfect examples of infinite regression I have come across.
In talking with Bryan about this in the past, he admitted that this was one of the biggest things he did not understand and had a hard time believing. I was and still am impressed with his honesty and in no way am trying to prey on his weakness by posting this. In fact I purposely waited about a year to post on this subject specifically because it was one of his weaker areas of faith.
I am in no way trying to suggest that a person needs to "know everything" in order to hold certain beliefs. Neither am I trying to say that all beliefs must be rational. All I am trying to do is to get us to take a closer look at exactly what it is we believe. What we are sub-consciously convinced of. And for us to decide whether or not we are ok with that.
Apologies for the long post, but it does serve as a gauge showing how much this matters to me.
God Bless you all!
| Reactions: |
Wednesday, January 19, 2011
Baptism. Taufe. טבילה 洗禮 Covenants

If you know all those languages then that is really cool. Kudos to you. And don't worry, we don't baptize this way in our church. haha It's quite a bit more peaceful. :P
To answer your question, yes. Oh you don’t know what the question was? The question was, “Didn’t someone (Bryan) already write about Baptism forever ago?” The answer is, yes. But I’m writing about the covenants we make at baptism, which is the reason we place so much importance on it in the LDS church.
When someone is baptized into the LDS church they “take upon them the name of Christ”. This is meaning that we will do our best to act like him; to be a part of him. It’s like when a girl gets married and she takes the last name of her husband. She is tying herself to him and showing that her husband is a part of her, that she is devoted to him and that they have joined together to move forward towards the same goals. It is this way when we take Christ’s name upon us. It shows that you readily stand up for the church, your standards, God and the Savior. You take his name upon you and covenant to always behave in a way that would never taint his name or disrespect it.
In the LDS church we take the sacrament every Sunday, which I know is not just something the LDS church does. I’ve been to a catholic mass before and they also had the sacrament there. I was surprised because I didn’t realize that others religions take the sacrament. For them, the sacrament is just performed and partaken of to remind them of Christ’s suffering for us. The bread=body, the water=blood. That’s basically common knowledge I know and in the LDS it also means that. However, it means more than that for us. When we take the sacrament we are renewing the covenants we made at baptism. We are cleansing ourselves of the sins we may have committed over the past week just as we were washed clean of our sins at the initial baptism.
I usually try to use mostly biblical scriptures, but since I'm talking about something that is LDS specific I will use Book of Mormon scriptures to explain our ways on the topic.
These are baptism scriptures talking about taking the name of Christ on them.
3 Nephi 18:11
Moroni 6:3-6
Mosiah 18:8-10 (The full written out version of the covenants we make. In what I wrote, I generalized what the covenants were by saying "taking on the name of Christ."
The following are sacrament scriptures talking about taking the name of Christ on them which is what we do at baptism. We renew our covenants during the sacrament as well.
D&C 20:77,79 (These are the sacrament prayers)
3 Nephi 18:7-10
| Reactions: |
Monday, January 10, 2011
Anti-Mormon Literature.
In June I wrote about the term "Anti-Mormon".
I mainly pointed out that the term itself doesn't seem appropriate... I'm not "Anti-Mormon" in the sense that I'm against Mormons... My best friend IS Mormon. For the specifics on the post please use the link above :)
This time, I'd like to focus on the claims of "Anti-Mormons". Whether or not this Anti-Mormon literature should be viewed by Mormons or Christians.
If you don't know already, I (Paul) have been looking into Mormonism extensively for about 2 years now. In talking to Bryan, we decided it would be a good idea to try the "Moroni Promise". Which basically means to read the Book of Mormon, then pray to ask God if it's true or not. Well, I did just that... and over 14 months later, I've yet to receive confirmation either way as to the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith having any authority from God.
In my conversations with Bryan ever since my first attempt to gain this 'testimony' of the BOM he spoke of, he didn't have any idea why I haven't received one... That is until I got his last letter.
In his last letter Bryan posited that the reason I may not have received my testimony is due to the amount of "Anti-Mormon Literature" I've subjected myself to. He also said that This type of literature is likened to "Spiritual Pornography" that it damages the spirit.
I was actually surprised at this seeing as Bryan and I had at one time agreed that Anti-Mormon literature wasn't a big deal and that anyone could read whatever they want. (Within reason of course).
After reading this I looked up past conversations I have had with Bryan to try and see where he was coming from... or if this was really what he believed, or if was an answer someone else suggested.
I found this bit that I had sent him back in July of '09: Anti-Mormon. Mormon J. Nelson-Seawright writes that "the terminological sleight of hand involved in the label ‘anti-Mormon’ allows [Mormons] to ignore the differences between honest and honorable men and women who oppose us, on the one hand, and unprincipled villains, on the other." Mormon Joni Hilton advises fellow members: "First of all, anti-Mormon literature, Internet sites, conversations, ideas, etc. are like spiritual pornography. Once they are in the mind, they are very difficult to get rid of. As you try to reach out to your husband, I would advise you to avoid any material, even if you think it might help you understand him better. You don’t want those seeds of doubt planted in your own mind, because no one is immune to them." -found from mrm.org
Bryan never responded to that email (He was usually pretty busy, no fault on his part) He did say this when I asked if it was ok for him to even read this stuff: "We can find and read anything…. Just type anything in google, and you can read stuff. I have talked to two bishops about the things I am learning with you. They don’t have a problem with anything. They are happy I am learning more about the church."
I can't go back and 'un-learn' all the "Anti-Mormon" literature I've ever read, but I can be shown that it was in error... I have to say that I would never join a church or religion without doing my own investigation into both the good and the bad. (Not that I haven't made the mistake of doing just the opposite in the past...) I don't expect the history of the LDS church to be perfect. But I do become concerned when I find that certain truths are being 'hidden' or 'harder to find'. If I was a missionary of the LDS church I would give as objective a picture as possible to those I was trying to convert. I wouldn't want to white-wash history and present a favorable view of the religion just to get numbers. (Not saying this is what Bryan's doing... in fact we made an agreement that he would never 'trick' anyone into the church by using shady tactics or omitting key information that would otherwise deter their joining the LDS church.)
Even within Christianity... As a Christian, I am disgusted at the mirrors and smoke employed to show Christianity in a favorable light. The dirty truth is that almost every early follower of Christ was called to serve as a martyr. Believing in Christ is not a way to get rich or "Live Your Best Life Now". It's not a means to get more friends or be accepted. I want so much to inform potential converts of true Christianity. That they may die for Christ, that it's easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. That we must take up our cross and follow Him, forsaking all others... Not even "wasting the time" to bury your own father. If this type of thing were to be considered "Anti-Christian Literature then I would be buying it in bulk and distributing it to every serious believer I encounter. Oh wait, I guess that is what I'm doing. Haha.
So if Anti-Mormonism is what's keeping me from having a testimony of the truth of the LDS church then I would that Elohim just keep His testimony. For if He's not strong enough to overcome a few misled "Mormon haters" then He's not who I thought He was.
What do you think? Should Mormons read "Anti-Mormon" material? Should Christians read Atheistic material? Would/could this material be the cause to keep someone from seeing the truth? Or might it be possible for God to make Himself real to even Christopher Hitchens before he succumbs to his cancer? (I pray for your healing Christopher)
Grace and Peace!
Bill McKeever, founder of Mormonism Research Ministry
I mainly pointed out that the term itself doesn't seem appropriate... I'm not "Anti-Mormon" in the sense that I'm against Mormons... My best friend IS Mormon. For the specifics on the post please use the link above :)
This time, I'd like to focus on the claims of "Anti-Mormons". Whether or not this Anti-Mormon literature should be viewed by Mormons or Christians.
If you don't know already, I (Paul) have been looking into Mormonism extensively for about 2 years now. In talking to Bryan, we decided it would be a good idea to try the "Moroni Promise". Which basically means to read the Book of Mormon, then pray to ask God if it's true or not. Well, I did just that... and over 14 months later, I've yet to receive confirmation either way as to the Book of Mormon or Joseph Smith having any authority from God.
In my conversations with Bryan ever since my first attempt to gain this 'testimony' of the BOM he spoke of, he didn't have any idea why I haven't received one... That is until I got his last letter.
In his last letter Bryan posited that the reason I may not have received my testimony is due to the amount of "Anti-Mormon Literature" I've subjected myself to. He also said that This type of literature is likened to "Spiritual Pornography" that it damages the spirit.
I was actually surprised at this seeing as Bryan and I had at one time agreed that Anti-Mormon literature wasn't a big deal and that anyone could read whatever they want. (Within reason of course).
After reading this I looked up past conversations I have had with Bryan to try and see where he was coming from... or if this was really what he believed, or if was an answer someone else suggested.
I found this bit that I had sent him back in July of '09: Anti-Mormon. Mormon J. Nelson-Seawright writes that "the terminological sleight of hand involved in the label ‘anti-Mormon’ allows [Mormons] to ignore the differences between honest and honorable men and women who oppose us, on the one hand, and unprincipled villains, on the other." Mormon Joni Hilton advises fellow members: "First of all, anti-Mormon literature, Internet sites, conversations, ideas, etc. are like spiritual pornography. Once they are in the mind, they are very difficult to get rid of. As you try to reach out to your husband, I would advise you to avoid any material, even if you think it might help you understand him better. You don’t want those seeds of doubt planted in your own mind, because no one is immune to them." -found from mrm.org
Bryan never responded to that email (He was usually pretty busy, no fault on his part) He did say this when I asked if it was ok for him to even read this stuff: "We can find and read anything…. Just type anything in google, and you can read stuff. I have talked to two bishops about the things I am learning with you. They don’t have a problem with anything. They are happy I am learning more about the church."
I can't go back and 'un-learn' all the "Anti-Mormon" literature I've ever read, but I can be shown that it was in error... I have to say that I would never join a church or religion without doing my own investigation into both the good and the bad. (Not that I haven't made the mistake of doing just the opposite in the past...) I don't expect the history of the LDS church to be perfect. But I do become concerned when I find that certain truths are being 'hidden' or 'harder to find'. If I was a missionary of the LDS church I would give as objective a picture as possible to those I was trying to convert. I wouldn't want to white-wash history and present a favorable view of the religion just to get numbers. (Not saying this is what Bryan's doing... in fact we made an agreement that he would never 'trick' anyone into the church by using shady tactics or omitting key information that would otherwise deter their joining the LDS church.)
Even within Christianity... As a Christian, I am disgusted at the mirrors and smoke employed to show Christianity in a favorable light. The dirty truth is that almost every early follower of Christ was called to serve as a martyr. Believing in Christ is not a way to get rich or "Live Your Best Life Now". It's not a means to get more friends or be accepted. I want so much to inform potential converts of true Christianity. That they may die for Christ, that it's easier for a camel to fit thru the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter heaven. That we must take up our cross and follow Him, forsaking all others... Not even "wasting the time" to bury your own father. If this type of thing were to be considered "Anti-Christian Literature then I would be buying it in bulk and distributing it to every serious believer I encounter. Oh wait, I guess that is what I'm doing. Haha.
So if Anti-Mormonism is what's keeping me from having a testimony of the truth of the LDS church then I would that Elohim just keep His testimony. For if He's not strong enough to overcome a few misled "Mormon haters" then He's not who I thought He was.
What do you think? Should Mormons read "Anti-Mormon" material? Should Christians read Atheistic material? Would/could this material be the cause to keep someone from seeing the truth? Or might it be possible for God to make Himself real to even Christopher Hitchens before he succumbs to his cancer? (I pray for your healing Christopher)
Grace and Peace!
| Reactions: |
Thursday, December 30, 2010
1 Year Anniversary! :D
I just happened to look at the date of this blog's inaugural post: 12/29/09
So I'm a day late but I wanted to at least call attention to this momentous occasion! :)
We've gone through quite a bit of changes in the last year and have even more in store for you starting right away in 2011!
Looking forward to finding truth with all of you. Thanks for a wonderful year!
| Reactions: |
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)




